Progress

[Micaelis]

Progress is caused by an anxious thrust from mere necessity into the culmination and cultivation of excess - inhereted by proceeding generations from preceding generations - within a given social stratum. Guglielmo Ferrero demonstrated this phenomenon of progress particularly well within the Roman world, noting its social dynamic by utilising the writings of Livy in particular and his hostile reaction to Rome's exuberance as a sentiment fostered by typical conservative and traditional-minded politicians, who idealise a much simpler form of existence, such as that of the country, with decreased levels of anxiety. We may infer much from this. However, I wish to state that progress is principally an economic rather than political phenomenon.

[Fade the Butcher]

However, I wish to state that progress is principally an economic rather than political phenomenon.

Are you saying here that a complex modern nation-state is the equivilant of a primitive stone age hunter gatherer tribe?

[Micaelis]

Are you saying here that a complex modern nation-state is the equivilant of a primitive stone age hunter gatherer tribe?

This conclusion can be arrived at only by misinterpreting my paragraph.

[Fade the Butcher]

This conclusion can be arrived at only by misinterpreting my paragraph.

I would say that organisms and political structures progress. They evolve into ever more complex forms and acquire new capabilities.

[Micaelis]

They evolve into ever more complex forms and acquire new capabilities.

This is a symptom of excess.

[scop]

Progress is caused by an anxious thrust from mere necessity into the culmination and cultivation of excess - inhereted by proceeding generations from preceding generations - within a given social stratum. Guglielmo Ferrero demonstrated this phenomenon of progress particularly well within the Roman world, noting its social dynamic by utilising the writings of Livy in particular and his hostile reaction to Rome's exuberance as a sentiment fostered by typical conservative and traditional-minded politicians, who idealise a much simpler form of existence, such as that of the country, with decreased levels of anxiety. We may infer much from this. However, I wish to state that progress is principally an economic rather than political phenomenon.

Agreed and put succintly.

[Roland]

Progress appears more as a value-based judgement applied to change. It seems to be a rather modernist notion as well.

[Fade the Butcher]

Progress appears more as a value-based judgement applied to change. It seems to be a rather modernist notion as well.

Progress is an aspect of teleological thinking. A thing progresses as it moves towards its end. The hand of Hegel is once again evident here.

[Fade the Butcher]

This is a symptom of excess.

It's a symptom of the movement towards perfection.

[Micaelis]

Hegel has been discredited, Fade. If the recent trend interests your idea of truth, I'm surprised that you should fall into Hegelianism. Considering your interest in totalitarianism, it becomes less surprising. :-p

[Roland]

True, progress is a teleological term, but it only functions in light of historical perspective. We can say, for instance, that technology has progressed towards its own end of perfection which currently means the simplification and extension of life. However, that function was not implicit in technology, in the Aristotelian sense, throughout the history of technology. Therefore, the emergence of different technologies throughout history cannot be told as a story of the pursuit of excellence.

[Ravenheart]

Hegel has been discredited, Fade. If the recent trend interests your idea of truth, I'm surprised that you should fall into Hegelianism. Considering your interest in totalitarianism, it becomes less surprising. :-p

I wonder if you've read any of Hegel's work.

[Ahknaton]

Hegel has been discredited, Fade.What you mean is: "Hegel is currently out of fashion"

[Micaelis]

What you mean is: "Hegel is currently out of fashion"

Hegel is not scientific. He is out of touch with this world. He is in touch with other-worlds created by the theo-philosophemes of Plato and the Christians.

[Ahknaton]

Rejecting a philosopher on the basis of being "unscientific" is absurd.

[Micaelis]

I wonder if you've read any of Hegel's work.

No. Who is Hegel? :p What are we talking about again?

[Micaelis]

Rejecting a philosopher on the basis of being "unscientific" is absurd.

Is it also absurd to reject him on grounds of boredom? :dance2:

[Geist]

Is it also absurd to reject him on grounds of boredom? :dance2:

Or his excessively elongated sentences, loaded terminology, and utter disregard for rambling on and whats going on again?

[Petr]

Hegel has been discredited, Fade. If the recent trend interests your idea of truth, I'm surprised that you should fall into Hegelianism. Considering your interest in totalitarianism, it becomes less surprising. :-p
Fade has adopted some historicist superstitions and dogmatic faith in eternal technological progress. The latter trait he happens to share with dogmatic libertarian propagandists like Ronald Bailey.


Petr

[OVERWATCH]

I would say that organisms and political structures progress. They evolve into ever more complex forms and acquire new capabilities.

I agree with this wholeheartedly!