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Felix the Cat
03-11-2006, 06:42 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4795832.stm

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41428000/jpg/_41428202_statue_203.jpg

A mental health charity has defended a statue it commissioned of Sir Winston Churchill in a straitjacket.

The statue has been criticised as "absurd and pathetic" by his grandson, Tory MP Nicholas Soames.

Charity Rethink commissioned the 9ft high sculpture, unveiled in Norwich, to highlight the stigma of mental health.

Rethink said the image of Churchill - who suffered bouts of depression - was designed to "portray a more positive image of people with mental illness".

Rethink director of campaigns Paul Corry said Churchill was often used by professional counsellors when talking about depression.

"We did not intend the statue to be offensive in any way," he added.

"The message we want to portray is that it is possible to recover from mental illness and overcome it and be successful - because Churchill is an example of someone who was able to do that.

"We are not intending to undermine Churchill or denigrate the efforts of anyone involved in the Second World War in any way whatsoever.

Allen Packwood, director of the Churchill Archives Centre, said while he could understand the reasons for putting up the statue, he disagreed with the portrayal of Churchill.

"It does highlight the fact that even the most famous individuals, the most iconic, are human, do suffer from human frailties ... and I think it is quite right that that does not diminish him, it heightens his achievements," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

"What I would question is whether his depression was ever really a straitjacket for him," he added.

He said he did not believe the former prime minister - who liked being in control of his image and being depicted as strong - would have liked the sculpture.

But Norwich North MP Dr Ian Gibson disagreed, saying Churchill himself acknowledged his depressive periods.

"He does record that he has bad days and that he was in a straitjacket," he told the programme.

"I think this illustrates quite positively that Winston Churchill, despite any problem he may have had with his mental health, was able to carry out his functions," he said.

Commenting on the statue, Mr Soames MP said he was sure the mental health charity behind the project was perfectly "sensible," but the idea of showing Winston Churchill who suffered from depression wearing a straitjacket was "appalling and a pity," but would not harm his grandfather's memory.

'Publicity paying off'

Peter Threadkell of the Norwich branch of the Royal British Legion reportedly told the Daily Express paper it was "disrespectful".

"To show him in this way insults his memory," he said

Mr Gibson said he felt the critics has "misinterpreted" the idea behind the statue.

"I think a lot of people will disagree with Mr Soames, although I see some have agreed with him. I think they have misinterpreted what is happening here," he said.

"The publicity itself is paying off. The campaign is gaining a lot of publicity from this statue."

The glass fibre and bronze sculpture has been erected in Norwich city centre and will remain until the end of March.

scop
03-11-2006, 06:46 PM
The statue has been criticised as "absurd and pathetic" by his grandson, Tory MP Nicholas Soames.


Sums it up.

WFHermans
03-11-2006, 06:57 PM
Winston Churchill was criminally insane. They should have put him in a straightjacket after he showed the first signs of insanity in 1898.

Felix the Cat
03-11-2006, 07:03 PM
Interesting that they chose to put this statue in Norfolk :p

Basil Fawlty
03-11-2006, 07:12 PM
Pity he didn't find his way into one of those jackets while he was alive.

cerberus
03-11-2006, 07:32 PM
On how would "Der Fuhrer" look in a padded cell ?

Was "WSC" a manic depressive , hardly likely if he led a country at war for almost 6 years.
Did he have "traits" of that personality type ?
Given that he is portrayed as such and given that as some of the comments posted here show the statue is being used not to serve any awareness of mental illness - quite the reverse - its being used as an excuse to redicule and belittle.

Now what sympathy would "Der Fuhrer" elict for the mentally ill - it would be very counter productive.

Donny the Punk
03-11-2006, 07:32 PM
That's a pretty ugly statue. Is just me or does he have a chicken-neck?

Nordicist
03-11-2006, 07:53 PM
Not only the genocidal egomaniac and mass-murdering thug should have been put in a straightjacked certainly by the Dardanelles fiasco - an adventure entirely of his own making - but he should have also been lobotomized and sterilized at the same time. There's no question that the old hatemonger was clinically insane.

Nordicist
03-11-2006, 08:00 PM
On how would "Der Fuhrer" look in a padded cell ?

Now what sympathy would "Der Fuhrer" elict for the mentally ill - it would be very counter productive.

Cerberus, you bring up Hitler in every single thread...even the ones that have nothing to with him or the war or the Third Reich, etc.

I bet that if a posted on my favourite cars, you'd find a way to say something about Hitler too...you're obviously an obsessive-compulsive monomaniac. Get a grip...leave the house...go far a walk...buy and read a book that has nothing to do with Hitler...see a shrink...take Prozac...whatever it takes.

ironweed
03-11-2006, 08:02 PM
But Norwich North MP Dr Ian Gibson disagreed, saying Churchill himself acknowledged his depressive periods.

"He does record that he has bad days and that he was in a straitjacket," he told the programme.

WTF? I know he called his depression the "black dog," but I'd never heard this before. I wonder what his source is?

cerberus
03-11-2006, 08:19 PM
Yes - I have heard that before Ironweed, but that does not make him a manic depressive.
Cerberus, you bring up Hitler in every single thread...even the ones that have nothing to with him or the war or the Third Reich, etc.

Only on account of the remarks made which have nothing to do with what the statue is said to represent.
Actually I am reading a Wilbur Smith at present , so far no Fuhrer has appeared - rest assured if he does crop up you will be the first to know.
see a shrink...take Prozac...whatever it takes
I will be glad to treat you anytime .;)

BTW your Avatar - looks a little like Wolfgang Willrich , but I don't think its one of his , is it ?

ironweed
03-11-2006, 08:57 PM
Yes - I have heard that before Ironweed, but that does not make him a manic depressive.


I didn't say he was a manic depressive (or bipolar to use today's lingo), nor did the part that I quoted. Being depressed -- even 'clinically depressed' -- is quite a bit different from being bipolar, which is as biological a problem as type I diabetes or cystic fibrosis. I don't think we'll ever know what sent Churchill down into the dumps, all we know is that he did report feeling unhappy from time to time.

I was just wondering where Churchill had ever said he'd worn a strait jacket, which is what the snippet I quoted did say he claimed somewhere.

cerberus
03-12-2006, 05:38 PM
Sorry Ironweed I was thinking ahead of myself, didn't mean to ascribe that to you.
Bipolar - yes one of those reoccurring functional illnesses which blight lives.
I read the manic depressive bit in one of yesterdays papers - its hardly likely that he was.
Its very unlikely that he ever wore a straight jacket , some might take a little delight in the statue and cast scorn on WSC but they forget what the statue is meant to symbolise.
"Revisionism at its best" .:rolleyes:

Daniel Shays
03-12-2006, 05:50 PM
Cerberus, you bring up Hitler in every single thread...even the ones that have nothing to with him or the war or the Third Reich, etc.

I bet that if a posted on my favourite cars, you'd find a way to say something about Hitler, too...you're obviously an obsessive-compulsive monomaniac. Get a grip...leave the house...go far a walk...buy and read a book that has nothing to do with Hitler...see a shrink...take Prozac...whatever it takes.
I was going to post that but I didn't want it to be considered a flame, but looking at it now his out of context mentions of Hitler constitute flames.

------------

On this statue:

It should be left intact once the hordes are driven out! :D

cerberus
03-12-2006, 07:30 PM
I am amazed at my mention of the Fuhrer being judged to have been a flame.
The statue was meant to make you consider the plight of the mentally ill in a more favourable light , that was its purpose.
Now on one level it might have been best to consult with his family before doing it - and on another level here there are lots of snide remarks regarding straight jackest his percieved wartime role and how others judge him.
No more a flame than my mentioning the Fuhrer - I would think - as I have posted before that his being cast in bronze would have provided no sympathy for anyone.
Flame - look at some of the other posts- nothing to do with statue and taking it out of context .

Dan Dare
03-12-2006, 07:54 PM
I don't have a particular problem with this concept, in fact it might have some other interesting spin-off applications.

Perhaps we could have a bronze of Tony Blair in a tutu, fishnet tights and Manolo Blahniks in recognition of his administration's role in promoting gay rights.

brigadier Biggles
03-14-2006, 01:17 AM
the statue has been pulled down.

Donny the Punk
03-14-2006, 01:20 AM
Haha, hilarious.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/norfolk/4803108.stm

A charity's controversial statue of Sir Winston Churchill in a straitjacket has been removed after it caused outcry.

WFHermans
03-14-2006, 11:38 AM
A charity's controversial statue of Sir Winston Churchill in a straitjacket has been removed after it caused outcry.

Judeo-western hypocracy in action, exhibit 837450327.

cerberus
03-14-2006, 02:56 PM
Judeo-western hypocracy in action, exhibit 837450327.
Did the BBC news item mention any Jews , I don't think so.:confused:
Judeo-western hypocracy in action
Hey , we're the master race !:rofl: