Nick Griffin on American WNs (important article)

[Fade the Butcher]

He makes a lot of important points.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/columnists/chairman2.php?ngId=30

If the neo-cons didn’t have the “world-Jewish conspiracy” theorists to hamstring patriotic opposition to their war, they’d have to invent them. Nick Griffin warns against a monumental blunder.

“Don’t let yourself be played like a fiddle” was the warning I received the other day from an American nationalist whose dedication to the cause of white survival is without doubt very sincere. The warning relates to the way in which the British National Party is positioned very firmly to benefit politically from ever-growing popular concern about the rise of Islam. The concern behind it is the belief that the growth of such sentiment is all part of a plot by powerful neo-conservatives to get America, Britain and the nations of Europe to invade the Middle East and make the world safe for the Zionist state of Israel. By extension, anyone who criticises Islam is liable to be accused by hardcore adherents of this theory of “working for the Jews.”

As a matter of fact, I have no doubt at all that the neo-con clique around George Bush are indeed influenced by such considerations; the power of the Zionist lobby in American politics is a straightforward political fact of life. The purpose of this article is neither to rehash nor to deny the material that proves this to be the case.

Nor am I launching a personal attack on Michael Hoffmann, author of the excellent book ‘They Were White and They Were Slaves’, who has recently criticised me for describing Islam as an evil religion (actually I said it was a “vicious, wicked faith”, but I’ll go with “evil” too). But it is to sound in return my own warning to people whose one-track concern about “the Jews” is blinding them to the clear and present danger of resurgent Islam.

Mike is one such person. “What is it about the Koran or Muhammad that makes Islam evil?” he asks, alleging as he does so that such claims are “racist neo-con propaganda”. Oh dear, the words “lost” and “plot” spring to mind, although there’s nothing here that a day or two living with a white (or, for that matter, Hindu or Pakistani Christian) family in Muslim-dominated parts of Bradford wouldn’t cure. . . .

[Fade the Butcher]

First of all, let's recap on just how many positions we take which are diametrically opposed to the neo-con agenda:

1) We are against the war in Iraq;

2) We are against overseas military adventures generally (though sending an SAS platoon to arrest and hang Robert Mugabe, and halt the persecution and extermination of the last white Rhodesians would be the exception to prove the rule);

3) We don't want to export our political system to the Third World;

4) We don't believe in imposing our economic system by force;

5) We don't believe in multi-culturalism;

6) We don't believe in laissez-faire economics domestically;

7) We oppose international free trade;

8) We don't believe in 'propositional nations';

9) We don't seek to impose Western culture on the whole world.

That sounds a lot like what I have been saying. :p

[Dan Dare]

Nick Griffin is somewhat on the mark with his warning to American (and other) WNs that "... The enemy of your old enemy may turn out not to be your friend, but something much worse." It might not, however, be completely fair to remind him of another recent remark that "...you should tend to focus your efforts on the enemy that you can defeat rather than the one that you'd really like to".

I particularly liked his line about "...the Internet cockerels of the anti-Semitic new dawn [who] stand on their virtual dung heaps and crow that “We’re in the Middle East for the Jews...." Nice to see that Nick hasn't lost his touch.

However the article, and indeed the whole current stance of the BNP, does carry a definite whiff of political opportunism. The BNP stood for a purpose, that of rolling back the Long March through the Institutions, well before anyone ever thought Islam was any kind of real threat to the West, or even before neo-conservatism was invented.

That same purpose would still exist even if all Muslims currently in Britain and elsewhere in Europe were to magically vapourise overnight. Getting rid of Islam in our midst will not resolve the problem that the BNP was intended to resolve, although it might be a good first step. As long as we all keep that in mind, I say three cheers for Nick Griffin.

[Fade the Butcher]

The quarrel between Nick Griffin and Michael Hoffmann is essentially one between tactics and theory.

[Boleslaw]

“The irritation against Jewish power in Western Europe is partly the friction between the two races, but much more than annoyance of feeling that non-national financial power can restrict our information and affect our lives in all sorts of ways. It is legitimate to point out, if one does not grow wearisome, the fact that Jewish financial power has prevented people from knowing the truth about most famous foreign trials where Jews were concerned. But just because these matters so nearly verge upon violent emotion, it is essential to avoid anything like the suspicion of fanaticism. It destroys all one’s case and weakens all one’s efforts…I think it is particularly silly to turn our one independent paper we still have into a monotonous mass of repetition upon on the single question of the hundred it should deal with. Supposing one were to fill a paper entirely with the danger to England of the German Fleet – which is a very real and practical question calculated to interest a vast number of people – how deadly the paper would become in three weeks.”
--Hilaire Belloc, October 30, 1913

[Fade the Butcher]

That a significant number of US-based white nationalists look set to make precisely this catastrophic blunder is, as a matter of fact, no surprise: The USA is, after all, the country whose ‘far-right’ leadership has consistently failed even to establish a viable national organisation. They have freedoms, opportunities and resources that we European nationalists can only dream of, yet the USA shares with Ireland alone in the white world the dishonour of not having a proper nationalist political party.

Nick is wrong on this point. The U.S. does in fact have such a nationalist political party. It's emerging as the US House Immigration Reform Caucus led by Congressman Tom Tancredo.

[Fade the Butcher]

Also, I will point out that economic nationalism is back with a vengence in the United States. Dubya and his globalization chorus just got slapped down by Congress in the Dubai Ports fiasco. CAFTA passed the U.S. House of Representatives by one vote.

[Anima Eternae]

I used to be protectionist, but I am slowly becoming a proponent of laissez-faire systems of economics.

[Fade the Butcher]

Latin America swallowed the Washington Consensus and has been spitting it back out recently.

[infoterror]

Nick Griffin is somewhat on the mark with his warning to American (and other) WNs that "... The enemy of your old enemy may turn out not to be your friend, but something much worse."

All true, but our main problem is power structures like democracy which favor liberalization, and the low quality of most "white" people.

[Fade the Butcher]

All true, but our main problem is power structures like democracy which favor liberalization, and the low quality of most "white" people.

It would probably be a good idea to go around the populace, right? Your typical American = cow grazing. From VDARE:

“When the weapons of mass destruction thing turned out not to be true, I expected the American people to rise up. They didn't.

Then, when the Abu Ghraib torture thing surfaced and it was revealed that our government participated in rendition, a practice where we kidnap people and turn them over to regimes who specialize in torture, I was sure then the American people would be heard from. We stood mute.

Then came the news that we jailed thousands of so-called terrorist suspects, locked them up without the right to a trial or even the right to confront their accusers. Certainly, we would never stand for that. We did.

And now, it's been discovered the executive branch has been conducting massive, illegal, domestic surveillance on its own citizens. You and me. And I at least consoled myself that finally, finally the American people will have had enough. Evidentially, we haven't.

In fact, if the people of this country have spoken, the message is we're okay with it all. Torture, warrantless search and seizure, illegal wiretappings, prison without a fair trial or any trial, war on false pretenses. We, as a citizenry, are apparently not offended.

There are no demonstrations on college campuses. In fact, there's no clear indication that young people even seem to notice. . . .

The Secret Service can now declare free speech zones to contain, control and, in effect, criminalize protest. Stop for a second and try to fathom that. At a presidential rally, parade or appearance, if you have on a supportive t-shirt, you can be there. If you’re wearing or carrying something in protest, you can be removed.

This! In the United States of America.”

[Starr]

But it is to sound in return my own warning to people whose one-track concern about “the Jews” is blinding them to the clear and present danger of resurgent Islam.

He is 100% correct on that.

[Furcht]

"Nick is wrong on this point. The U.S. does in fact have such a nationalist political party. It's emerging as the US House Immigration Reform Caucus led by Congressman Tom Tancredo."


How long is it gonna take fade? How long has it been emerging? where is it emerging? evidence?

[Kodos]

“When the weapons of mass destruction thing turned out not to be true, I expected the American people to rise up. They didn't.

Then, when the Abu Ghraib torture thing surfaced and it was revealed that our government participated in rendition, a practice where we kidnap people and turn them over to regimes who specialize in torture, I was sure then the American people would be heard from. We stood mute.

Then came the news that we jailed thousands of so-called terrorist suspects, locked them up without the right to a trial or even the right to confront their accusers. Certainly, we would never stand for that. We did.

And now, it's been discovered the executive branch has been conducting massive, illegal, domestic surveillance on its own citizens. You and me. And I at least consoled myself that finally, finally the American people will have had enough. Evidentially, we haven't.

In fact, if the people of this country have spoken, the message is we're okay with it all. Torture, warrantless search and seizure, illegal wiretappings, prison without a fair trial or any trial, war on false pretenses. We, as a citizenry, are apparently not offended.

There are no demonstrations on college campuses. In fact, there's no clear indication that young people even seem to notice. . . .

The Secret Service can now declare free speech zones to contain, control and, in effect, criminalize protest. Stop for a second and try to fathom that. At a presidential rally, parade or appearance, if you have on a supportive t-shirt, you can be there. If you’re wearing or carrying something in protest, you can be removed.

This! In the United States of America.”

This is from the TV show Boston Legal, I've seen the clip. I don't like it so much as it contains the entireity of the leftist case against the government and the bush administration...

[Felix the Cat]

Even the question of oil should be dealt with by a Swedish-style crash programme to wean ourselves off the stuff, not least because it’s an environmental disaster and is going to become scarce and so impossibly expensive sooner or later anyway. The only thing of any interest to us is that potential flood of refugees. Apart from that, what happens in the Middle East should be a matter of sublime indifference to a properly run Western nation.
This is a critical issue. This heavy dependence on Arab oil will inevitably continue to embroil Western nations in Arab quarrels, no matter how much we would prefer to stay out of them

This would still be the case even if Israel did not exist

[Petr]

The quarrel between Nick Griffin and Michael Hoffmann is essentially one between tactics and theory.
Yes, Hoffman is a very idealistic person, not very fond of realpolitik.


Petr

[Sulla the Dictator]

It seems that one of you guys posts something like this every other week. What it seems to amount to is an endless series of 'pep talks' and 'strategy speeches'.

An armchair sports team. All this doesn't amount to a hill of beans when you never take the field. What is the critique of? Not of ACTIONS. Its a critique of TALKING about future actions. :p

[Jimbo Gomez]

BNP is taking it to the field.

[Sulla the Dictator]

BNP is taking it to the field.

Yeah...but come on. Lets be realistic about it.

[Jimbo Gomez]

Le Pen takes it to the field, so does Haider, the Vlaams Belang, so did Fortuyn's party... Need I go on?

[Sulla the Dictator]

Le Pen takes it to the field, so does Haider, the Vlaams Belang, so did Fortuyn's party... Need I go on?

You characterize these as white nationalist parties?

[Jimbo Gomez]

They're ethnic nationalists. WN is stupid, but if it must be practiced, the BNP variant has most chane of success.

[Anarch]

First of all, let's recap on just how many positions we take which are diametrically opposed to the neo-con agenda:

1) We are against the war in Iraq;

It's a waste of time.

2) We are against overseas military adventures generally (though sending an SAS platoon to arrest and hang Robert Mugabe, and halt the persecution and extermination of the last white Rhodesians would be the exception to prove the rule);

We disagree. Sort of. I'm in favour of Australia annexing white South Africa, New Zealand, and turning Papua New Guinea back into a territory of ours. And then using nuclear weaponary to blast their mountains to bits, which will basically, after some time, turn north and a large chunk of Western Australia into arable living space :cool:

3) We don't want to export our political system to the Third World.

Agreed.

4) We don't believe in imposing our economic system by force;

Agreed.

5) We don't believe in multi-culturalism;

Hell yeah.

6) We don't believe in laissez-faire economics domestically;

Minus non-whites, I do.

7) We oppose international free trade;

Definetly.

8) We don't believe in 'propositional nations';

ROFLMAO. Agreed.

9) We don't seek to impose Western culture on the whole world.

I don't care for the idea.

[cerberus]

Worth reading Robert Fisk's leading article on the Iraq War three years on.
"The March of folly, that has led to a bloodbath".

Unlike Nick Griffins artilce , Fisk's is a little more objective and telling.
Fisk describes the actions of Bush , Blair and Aznar as being a"march of little men dressed as titans".
He explores what Saddam may really have been "part Donald Duck and Don Corleone" , certainly the "weapons of mass destruction" has long been exposed as more than a myth and an actual lie.

Fisk also has some words for the ideology of the war.
"From its creation by the loonies of the American right - as a pro-Israeli policyto aid Likud Party leader Netanyahu and then foisted on Bush , to the hell disaster that Iraq now represents , the real war had to be turned into myth;nightmare into dreams;destructioninto hope;terribletruthsinto profound mendacity".

There is no doubt that both Bush and Blair should have no right to hold office - both are accomplished liars and spin doctors , Blair is at least intelligent, Bush is less so.
Unfortunately America voted Bush back into office and for the moment Blair still is pm in the Uk but his grip on office is slowly crumbling.

Fisk noted that from the outset the invasion of Iraq had no long term goal or end game , no idea or thought given as to how the country was to be managed or administered , this has been ( the decision to attackapart) a major folly which under pins the fiasco which has taken place.

So before Fade and some other posters jump up and down and say " I told you so" , think on the "looney right" and the myth of "the pro-Israeli policy".
Jews directing policy and using America for their own interests - your folly was to elect that quarter wit Bush.

I have also seen that IHR have posted up soem articles by Robert Fisk in their "headlines" , they will you can be sure not posting up his views on the "loonies of the American right".

As far as Nick Griffen goes , the loonies exist in the UK as well , Nick Griffen is one of them.

[Fade the Butcher]

How long is it gonna take fade? How long has it been emerging?

For several years now.

where is it emerging?

In the U.S. House of Representatives.

evidence?

The defeat of Bush's amnesty plan and the immigration reform bill that passed the House of Representatives last December.

[Fade the Butcher]

So before Fade and some other posters jump up and down and say " I told you so" , think on the "looney right" and the myth of "the pro-Israeli policy".

There is no "myth of the pro-Israeli policy." I don't see why you keep posting discredited lies. That myth was destroyed once and for all in the other thread where I posted the Mearsheimer and Walt study.

[cerberus]

Fade , if I might agree with Robert Fisk on this one I am sure you won't mind too much.
I do see him as having a clearer mind and a balanced one at that.

[Sinclair]

He makes a good point about the Talmud: It isn't like the Torah (Old Testament), hell, I doubt even the most fundamentalist Orthodox Jew obeys EVERY rule in the Torah. It's a collection of religious writings, but it's mostly optional.

It's like the Arms and Equipment Guide to the Torah's Player's Handbook.

I AM A NERD.

[Felix the Cat]

A related thread (http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3686)

[Nordicist]

I have finally read Griffin's overlong screed; and at this juncture I will only make the following point: I don't know why he dismisses the idea that Jewish genetic interests might simultaneously translate into support of major (communism to left-liberalism) and minor (neo-conservatism to traditionalism) infiltrations (for lack of a better term) in order to frame the acceptable parametres of Gentile debate.

Griffin fails to realize (intentionally?) that Jewish domination over the said acceptable parametres of gentile debate does not have to imply the strawman of a sinister cabal of Learned Elders of Zion; suffice it to say that Jews being a narcissistic, self-absorbed, and paranoid group (MacDonald appropriately calls Judaism a religion of self-worship) are afraid that if they refrain from taking either side (assuming implausibly that there are only two sides), the dreaded and hated Goyim will seize the the levers and unleash hostile feelings, presumably always bubbling at the surface of Gentile society, in their direction. Therefore, Jews have felt a need to divide and conquer or risk another racial catastrophe. The Jews have been known to play a double game since they burst on the international scene in Roman times. The fact that yesterday's Red Trotskyists have with great ease transmogrified into today's fervent neo-cons ought to give Nick food for thought.

However, the English are an eminently pragmatic race and we should take Griffin's sometimes disingenuous outpourings as only a lucid expression of what is politically feasable to achieve in the current climate.