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Ahknaton
04-04-2006, 10:49 AM
Revealed: victims of UK's cold war torture camp

Ian Cobain
Monday April 3, 2006
The Guardian

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2006/04/02/prisoners372ready.jpg

Photographs of victims of a secret torture programme operated by British authorities during the early days of the cold war are published for the first time today after being concealed for almost 60 years.

The pictures show men who had suffered months of starvation, sleep deprivation, beatings and extreme cold at one of a number of interrogation centres run by the War Office in postwar Germany.

A few were starved or beaten to death, while British soldiers are alleged to have tortured some victims with thumb screws and shin screws recovered from a gestapo prison. The men in the photographs are not Nazis, however, but suspected communists, arrested in 1946 because they were thought to support the Soviet Union, an ally 18 months earlier.

Apparently believing that war with the Soviet Union was inevitable, the War Office was seeking information about Russian military and intelligence methods. Dozens of women were also detained and tortured, as were a number of genuine Soviet agents, scores of suspected Nazis, and former members of the SS.

Yesterday there were calls for the Ministry of Defence to acknowledge what had happened and apologise. Nick Harvey, the Liberal Democrats' defence spokesman, said: "It's too late for anyone to be held personally responsible, or held politically to account, but it's not too late for the MoD to acknowledge what has happened."

Sherman Carroll, of the Medical Foundation for the Care of Victims of Torture, said British authorities should also apologise and pay compensation to survivors. "The suggestion that Britain did not use torture during world war two and in the immediate aftermath, because it was regarded as 'ineffective', is a mythology that has been successfully propagated for decades," he said. "The fact that it took place should be acknowledged."

The MoD dismissed the calls, saying questions about the interrogation centres were a matter for the Foreign Office.

Declassified Whitehall papers show that members of the Labour government of the day went to great lengths to hide the ill-treatment, in part, as one minister wrote, to conceal "the fact that we are alleged to have treated internees in a manner reminiscent of the German concentration camps".

Almost six decades later the photographs were still being kept secret. Four months ago they were removed from a police report on the mistreatment of inmates at one of the interrogation centres, near Hanover, shortly before the document was released to the Guardian under the Freedom of Information Act.

Although the file was in the possession of the Foreign Office, the pictures were removed at the request of the Ministry of Defence. They have finally been released after an appeal by the Guardian. The photographs were taken in February 1947 by a Royal Navy officer who was determined to bring the torture programme to an end. Pictures of other victims, taken by the same officer, appear to have vanished from the Foreign Office files.

Meanwhile documents about a secret interrogation centre which the War Office operated in central London between 1945 and 1948, where large numbers of men are now known to have been badly mistreated, are still being withheld by the Ministry of Defence. Officials say the papers cannot yet be released because they have been contaminated with asbestos.

It is not clear whether the men in the photographs fully recovered from their mistreatment. It is also unclear, from examination of the War Office and Foreign Office documents now available, when the torture of prisoners in Germany came to an end.

WFHermans
04-04-2006, 10:59 AM
Meanwhile documents about a secret interrogation centre which the War Office operated in central London between 1945 and 1948, where large numbers of men are now known to have been badly mistreated, are still being withheld by the Ministry of Defence.
Bit by bit, mainly thanks to the internet, the real history that the jews don't want us to know is coming out. Tony Blair can borrow an idea from jew-controlled Germany and Israel, and make it illegal to question the "offical history" of the 20th century (in fact he tried to do that already).

cerberus
04-04-2006, 11:03 AM
The MoD dismissed the calls, saying questions about the interrogation centres were a matter for the Foreign Office.

This is known as "Passing the Buck."
But.
Although the file was in the possession of the Foreign Office, the pictures were removed at the request of the Ministry of Defence.
Could be looked upon as trying to sort your "whites from your colurs" as far as the "dirty washing" goes.

Declassified Whitehall papers show that members of the Labour government of the day went to great lengths to hide the ill-treatment, in part, as one minister wrote, to conceal "the fact that we are alleged to have treated internees in a manner reminiscent of the German concentration camps".


Could the revisionist circle please take note of the fact that the papers have come into the public domaine.
No such problems in Hitlers Germany much easier to hide and conceal.

Should anyone who recieved treatment like this be compensated , absolutely.
Could a goverment behave in this way again , let's not hold our breath on that one. Not a rfeerence to gas chambers , honest).

Can't say that this does the MOD any favours nor the PR image.

cerberus
04-04-2006, 11:11 AM
real history that the jews don't want us to know is coming out
WFH , don't talk with your mouth full.:p ;)
If you want to post up some " real history" answers on the SS division you say rescued the children in the photograph on the "How do revisionist explain this" thread .
I would be more than interested in any names or details you might come up with.

This has nothing to do with "Jews" or "jews not wanting" or "jewish control".

For my part I wish the PRO was not lumbered with 25 , 50 , 75 etc "year rules".

Thing is when dirty washing of Herr Hitler's overment come out you look for an alternative history , your "real history".
If these documenets are real , its a case of asking how , why , when , where , under what direction and for how long.
You can go off on a flight of phantasy if you want but there are questions to be answered , " Jews" don't figure in them.

Will Scarlet
04-04-2006, 11:23 AM
The men in the photographs are not Nazis, however, but suspected communists, arrested in 1946 because they were thought to support the Soviet Union, an ally 18 months earlier.


... which makes it permissable to wax indignant about the treatment they received.

Jimbo Gomez
04-04-2006, 11:24 AM
There is nothing wrong with torturing your enemies in order to find out information which might save your own people. If all of this torture has only revealed a single bolshevik spy, this would all have been worthwile.

Ahknaton
04-04-2006, 11:35 AM
Bit by bit, mainly thanks to the internet, the real history that the jews don't want us to know is coming out.This has an element of truth to it, but it should be pointed out that this came to light because the Guardian (a mainstream print newspaper) pursued a request under the Freedom of Information Act. How many Internet bloggers/activists do any actual research "offline"?

cerberus
04-04-2006, 11:51 AM
which makes it permissable to wax indignant about the treatment they received
Is there a fine line between torture and interrogation ?
That they are suspected Communist or captured Nazi makes no difference to me.
I have previously posted that I had no sympathy for the treatment Hoess recieved on capture and still don't have.
How many Internet bloggers/activists do any actual research "offline"?

Very few , its quite costly and time consuming , I am one of the few.

Will Scarlet
04-04-2006, 12:08 PM
Is there a fine line between torture and interrogation ?
That they are suspected Communist or captured Nazi makes no difference to me.



Yeah, but you aren't the media establishment.

cerberus
04-04-2006, 02:03 PM
Yeah, but you aren't the media establishment.
Granted but I think it would have still made its way "out".

The F.oI. act may haunt Blair in the future.

Empress Cheesatine
04-04-2006, 10:12 PM
Wuh oh! Another Holocaust!!

Kodos
04-04-2006, 10:17 PM
There is nothing wrong with torturing your enemies in order to find out information which might save your own people. If all of this torture has only revealed a single bolshevik spy, this would all have been worthwile.

It depends, torture should be an option in intelligence but its use shouldn't be widespread( high level authorization) and of course it should be off limits to normal law enforcement. I liked the Elizabethan theory, only if it was personally authorized by the queen herself( which she did a few times when she deemed it vital to national security).

Jimbo Gomez
04-04-2006, 10:19 PM
It depends, torture should be an option in intelligence but its use shouldn't be widespread( high level authorization) and of course it should be off limits to normal law enforcement. I liked the Elizabethan theory, only if it was personally authorized by the queen herself( which she did a few times when she deemed it vital to national security).


When it comes to the safety of innocents, torture should always be an option. What if you need to localize hostages and your kidnapper refuses to tell you where they are? I say hit him with a phonebook until he begs you to allow him to tell you where they are.

Kodos
04-04-2006, 10:21 PM
Beatings don't quite qualify to the level of torture...

Running electric currents through the nerves in peoples gum lining and things like that... now that is torture.