Germany to open Holocaust archive

[Ahknaton]

I wonder what impact if any this will have on the Holocaust revisionism debate?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4921098.stm

Germany to open Holocaust archive

By Ray Furlong
BBC News, Berlin

Germany is to open up a huge archive of Nazi records on concentration camp inmates and slave labourers, ending a long-running dispute.

Justice Minister Brigitte Zypries announced the move during a US visit.

The files contain detailed information about more than 17 million people who went through the concentration camp and slave labour system.

Until now, Germany had resisted international pressure to allow access, citing privacy considerations.

The files are locked up at a former SS barracks in Bad Arolsen in central Germany.

The International Red Cross has used the files to help trace people for relatives who lost contact during the war. It still gets around 150,000 requests a year.

Over several years, there has been growing pressure to open the archive for historical research and for survivors to have direct access.

The US and UK have pushed for the files to be opened, as have Jewish groups, but Germany has always resisted, citing privacy considerations.

The files contain details ranging from the results of lice inspections to the possession of insurance policies.

Germany had feared that it would be the target of legal action if this information became public. These concerns seem now to have been put to rest.

It is not expected that the opening of the archives will have major legal implications because the deadlines set for international class action lawsuits have now passed.

The decision to open the archive can now be formally approved in May when representatives of the 11 countries which are responsible for it next meet.

[cerberus]

Hopefully it may answer some questions , as long as its not said that the past 60 years have been passed providing more forged documents.

[Trojan]

Hopefully it may answer some questions , as long as its not said that the past 60 years have been passed providing more forged documents.

Which is what revisionists will say when the documents dash their hopes :rolleyes:

[Sulla the Dictator]

Yes. Well its not as though they've been serious scholars anyway. But if thats the card they play, they'll only look more ridiculous than they already do.

[Starr]

Yes. Well its not as though they've been serious scholars anyway. But if thats the card they play, they'll only look more ridiculous than they already do.


Well, they are certainly treated as if they are, since their views are such a danger to society that they have to be locked up, and all.

[Jimbo Gomez]

Without going into the topic of wether or not those documents are real (I'll leave that to the conspiracy nuts) you can bet your ass that each of those documents will corroborate the official story, or else they wouldn't be displayed. Not in Germany.

[Sulla the Dictator]

Well, they are certainly treated as if they are, since their views are such a danger to society that they have to be locked up, and all.

Sure. Bestialists are a danger to our social fabric as well. Thats why we throw them in jail. To silence them. :rolleyes:

[Sulla the Dictator]

Without going into the topic of wether or not those documents are real (I'll leave that to the conspiracy nuts) you can bet your ass that each of those documents will corroborate the official story, or else they wouldn't be displayed. Not in Germany.

This is one of benefits of the official story being the truth.

[albion]

By ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published April 19, 2006
-------------------------------

WASHINGTON - After decades of holding back, Germany took a major step Tuesday toward opening Nazi records on 17-million Jews, slave laborers and other Holocaust victims to historians and relatives long anxious for conclusive information about their fate.

Germany pledged to work with the United States to ensure the opening of the archives, which are housed in the German town Bad Arolsen. Eleven nations oversee the 30-million to 50-million documents and are to meet in Luxembourg next month to consider amending a 1955 treaty that limited access and copying.

"We still have negotiations to do," the U.S. special envoy for Holocaust issues, Edward B. O'Donnell, said in an interview. "Our goal is to reach an agreement as soon as possible."

Approval in Luxembourg would require agreement by all 11 countries. The parliaments of several of the countries would have to give their approval, as well.
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/04/19/Worldandnation/Germany__US_may_open_.shtml

[eggheadbanga]

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/03/arolsen-archive-controversy-cold.html

The Arolsen Archive Controversy: Cold Comfort for Deniers
Today's Washington Post brings an update on the spat over the records housed at the International Tracing Service in Arolsen, Germany. The story first broke just over a month ago, when it was revealed that more than 20 countries were calling on Germany to open up access to the Arolsen archive to both historians and relatives.

The archive, administered since 1955 by the Federal Republic of Germany, contains records created by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) after 1945 through their efforts to trace and locate the countless displaced persons, refugees and concentration camps. Reputedly, over 17 million names are contained in these records.

So why are the Arolsen archives of interest to both historians of the Holocaust as well as to Holocaust deniers?

The reason, it appears, for the obstinacy of both the ICRC and the German government lies in the strict privacy laws which govern access to German archives. If you've ever wondered why Christopher Browning and other leading historians have to write of Hans K. or invent pseudonyms for eyewitnesses, then it's because of German data protection law. This applies both to victims as well as perpetrators, with the result that unconvicted or acquitted SS men accused of war crimes in German courts cannot be named by historians, even though their identities can be freely established by resort to the SS personnel files available in the US National Archives.

From today's WaPo story, it would appear that the ITS is also lagging behind in its primary function, with an alleged backlog of hundreds of thousands of cases requiring identification. This hurts not only those seeking to establish the fate of missing relatives, but also might undermine the compensation cases brought by survivors under existing schemes. Yet it appears that the German government might fear an avalanche of new claims should the archives be opened.

But compensation is a second-order issue to the main controversy surrounding access to ITS files. This concerns access for historians. As historians already labour under incredibly tight restrictions on privacy in other German archives such as the former Zentrale Stelle für Landesjustizverwaltung in Ludwigsburg, which houses the records of West German war crimes investigations, there are already precedents for how privacy concerns can be managed. So far, because of German opposition, no agreement has been reached among the 11-nation oversight committee in charge of Arolsen concerning establishing even a working group of scholars to assess the value of the records for historians.

Among the research centres that have protested the lack of access to Arolsen include the University of Amsterdam and the US Holocaust Memorial Museum.

The irony of the entire controversy is that many files from Arolsen have long been copied to other archives, including the US National Archives, and through then, the US Holocaust Memorial Museum.

So what do these existing collections contain? The 189 reels of microfilm at NARA alone contain records of some but not all German concentration camps, but more interestingly also an incomplete set of deportation lists from Berlin and several other German cities. They therefore help document the number of Jews transported to Auschwitz, including thousands of Berliners deported during the so-called Fabrikaktion of early 1943, about which Wolf Gruner has recently written at length.

Moreover, other Arolsen files have been copied to Yad Vashem Archives. It was in these files, for example, that Christian Gerlach found a copy of a 1945 report indicating the numbers of arrivals at Auschwitz during 1944 who were selected for work, thereby clarifying the fate of Jews deported during the Hungarian Action.

Thus, the ITS files offer cold comfort for Holocaust Deniers such as Ernst Zundel, who claims that the Arolsen materials prove a far lower death toll inside German concentration camps.

The value of the Arolsen archive to researchers does not lie in the opening-up of files relating to the main concentration camps, since most of these are already available for public access at NARA. Moreover, the detailed records for many camps like Majdanek and Neuengamme were destroyed, never to be recovered. Nor does Arolsen contain materials relating to the Aktion Reinhard camps. It cannot be ruled out that the Arolsen archive may also contain more documents related to the fate of Jewish deportees like the Glaser report mentioned above. But this is not the only material that Arolsen holds.

Rather, the ITS archives could also help to clarify the fates of literally millions of other deportees, especially non-Jewish forced labourers from Western and Eastern Europe, but also the victims of ethnic expulsions in Central and Eastern Europe after 1945. Arolsen is therefore of concern not just to historians of the Holocaust, but to historians of the Second World War and its aftermath as a whole. Research into the deportation of well over 7 million foreign workers to Germany, the postwar movements of Displaced Persons, repatriaton programs and the ethnic expulsions will all be immeasurably enriched by access to the ITS files.

In this sense, Holocaust deniers expose their lack of imagination and lack of humanity when they concentrate solely on the fate of European Jews, ignoring the fate of millions of non-Jews who also suffered because of Nazi policies of deportation. Nor do they seem as concerned with the fate of ethnic Germans expelled from east of the Iron Curtain. Perhaps, in this last case, because it is easier to spout superficially sourced figures than to do proper research.

[Starr]

Sure. Bestialists are a danger to our social fabric as well. Thats why we throw them in jail. To silence them. :rolleyes:


You are comparing deviant behaviors to unpopular opinions. Apples and oranges. What kind of comparison is that?

Oh, yeah, that's right, allowing this speech to go unpunished will lead to another six million. Maybe outspoken revisionists should be put on trial for crimes against humanity.:rolleyes:

[Gaian Meroveus]

Comrades,

I think it's time that Germany burns the nazi archives in there entirety, as the U.S. undoubtedly has attempted to destroy all official documentation of it's genocide commited against it's indigenous population, and the Russians at least attempt to weed out and destroy archival materials that incriminate that country in some pretty foul doings.

"Stop beating yourself up my guilt ridden kinsmen", it's time to move on.
F*** what the world thinks!
Enough with the German=Nazi crap.

The Romans committed some pretty grave attrocities against my people, but i don't go around ragging on Italians for the sins of their fathers.

This has been a 35 year old gits -who didn't realise this forum was populated predominately by the University set when he signed up...lol- attempt to communicate in the vernacular of his juniours.


Best wishes Kids,
Pops Meroveus.

[Trojan]

You are comparing deviant behaviors to unpopular opinions. Apples and oranges. What kind of comparison is that?

Oh, yeah, that's right, allowing this speech to go unpunished will lead to another six million. Maybe outspoken revisionists should be put on trial for crimes against humanity.:rolleyes:

Germany is a democratic country with a well established, advesarial legal system - if and when the Germany people as a whole want the law changed, it will be changed - until then, deal with it.

[Starr]

Germany is a democratic country with a well established, advesarial legal system - if and when the Germany people as a whole want the law changed, it will be changed - until then, deal with it.


I don't have to deal with anything. I don't live there and if I did I wouldn't be stirring up the whole holocaust hornet's nest anyway and giving the Jews exactly what they want. A law like that will not be changed when the people are eaten up with all kinds of jew induced guilt.

[Slavic Enforcer]

Germany is a democratic country with a well established, advesarial legal system - if and when the Germany people as a whole want the law changed, it will be changed - until then, deal with it.

Correct.

Obviously some people outside of Germany think they know better what the German people want and need than the German people themselve.

[Sulla the Dictator]

You are comparing deviant behaviors to unpopular opinions. Apples and oranges. What kind of comparison is that?


A valid one. Not all nations have bestiality laws. Thats what happens when people get to choose their own laws, rather than having you vet them.

[Slavic Enforcer]

If a German would spread propadanda like G. Miller does, he would probably end up in prison.

[Gaian Meroveus]

Germany is a democratic country with a well established, advesarial legal system - if and when the Germany people as a whole want the law changed, it will be changed - until then, deal with it.

The contemporary German people by and large are a bunch of self loathing, brainwashed boot lickers who are completely bereft of the abilty to judge what is and isn't in their own best interests. No people of Europe has fallen into the abyss of the globalist agenda more so than the Germans.

I am a son of a German National of un-questionable Volkdeutsche heritage.
I was not educated in Germany or Europe and thus not subjected to the same social engineering and multi-culturalist propaganda, and as a result, i am more traditionally a German by nature and sentiment than my cousins who were.
I am perhaps in a better position to ascertain what is in the interests of the German people as the German people.
Perhaps i am not in a position to judge the best interests of the German people as Euro-sheep.



Best wishes,
Alles gute,
GM.

[infoterror]

If a German would spread propadanda like G. Miller does, he would probably end up in prison.

...and then gain immunity in exchange for testimony?

[infoterror]

The contemporary German people by and large are a bunch of self loathing, brainwashed boot lickers who are completely bereft of the abilty to judge what is and isn't in their own best interests. No people of Europe has fallen into the abyss of the globalist agenda more so than the Germans.

Not all of 'em -- and many more seem to be waking up.

Alas, I fear the "90% = sheep" factor is consistent everywhere. It's one of the many reasons why I'm against democracy.

Germans are beautiful.

[Jimbo Gomez]

This is one of benefits of the official story being the truth.

Willingly ignoring my point. Think of it hypothetically (I know you are capable of abstract thinking) : suppose those archives only corroborate the death of 2 to 3 million jews and deny the existance of gaschambers, would the German authorities, guiltridden like noone else in history, make them public?

I don't know what exactly happened in the camps, and frankly: I don't care. I am skeptic about the veracity of information coming from people who love to wallow in their own guilt though, because I know that if there's another side of the coin, they'll make sure you'll never see it.

[Trojan]

Willingly ignoring my point. Think of it hypothetically (I know you are capable of abstract thinking) : suppose those archives only corroborate the death of 2 to 3 million jews and deny the existance of gaschambers, would the German authorities, guiltridden like noone else in history, make them public?

I don't know what exactly happened in the camps, and frankly: I don't care. I am skeptic about the veracity of information coming from people who love to wallow in their own guilt though, because I know that if there's another side of the coin, they'll make sure you'll never see it.

So basically, in your mind, the documents are already tainted.

[Jimbo Gomez]

So basically, in your mind, the documents are already tainted.


Didn't say that. If they were, I wouldn't care. If these documents are real, they'd show them. If they're fake and they know it, they might still show them. However, in the event that there would be real documents proving the official holocaust story wrong, you bet your ass they WON'T show them.

[cerberus]

Why not , if they were to prove that the Holocaust didn't happen.
Now if and its one hell of an "if" they did show that no Holocaust took place what about all those papers which say it did happen ?
"What is" is more important than any "what if" .

[Jimbo Gomez]

Cerb: again a reply that tries to force me into the umpteenth pissingcontest 'did the holocaust take place?' I DO NOT CARE IF IT DID OR NOT!

What I am saying is that, in my previously stated hypothesis, Germany is so guiltridden by now they'd keep it quiet.

[cerberus]

CM , didn't intent to get into the "H" again - God knows there are enough H's around phora to last a month of Sundays.
I think that present day Germany has no reason to scurge itself - they are not responsible , they didn't put it in train.

[Jimbo Gomez]

Their biggest dogma is that you can never ever deny the holocaust. Even if they'd have black on white evidence it never happened, using it would be seen as heresy in Germany. They do not approach the holocaust in a rational manner there.

[Sulla the Dictator]

suppose those archives only corroborate the death of 2 to 3 million jews and deny the existance of gaschambers, would the German authorities, guiltridden like noone else in history, make them public?


No, they wouldn't. However, that does assume the premise that its even feasible to invent the subject. There wouldn't be a mention of gaschambers in WWII if they wern't real. I doubt German authorities WOULD be guilt ridden if they were aware of any different facts.


I don't know what exactly happened in the camps


I do.


I am skeptic about the veracity of information coming from people who love to wallow in their own guilt though, because I know that if there's another side of the coin, they'll make sure you'll never see it.

If there was another side of the coin, my point is that they wouldn't be guilty.

[cerberus]

"Even if" is like a slightly bigger "if".

[Dan Dare]

I for one will be taking a wait-and-see approach.

It is, however, incontrovertible that the limited amount of data released thus far from the Bad Arolsen archives has not been particularly helpful to the exterminationist case. The much lower than previously claimed death-tolls for the concentration camps within the Reich (including Auschwitz) being a particular case in point.

It is of course to be hoped that whatever does eventually get released is made available to interested historians generally and does not just get subsumed into the Yad Vashem archives like so many other important artifacts that are then subsequently only accessible to those scholars with the appropriately approved credentials.

[cerberus]

I for one will be taking a wait-and-see approach.
Which is fair enough Dan - I don't know what papers are within.
Has anything come out which has said "No Gas Chambers " ?
The use of the term "Exterminationists" Dan is out of place - again hollow empty terms are the domain of those who need them - serious honest historians can get in the front door of any nations national archive.

It is, however, incontrovertible that the limited amount of data released thus far from the Bad Arolsen archives
What information Dan and were can we see it , any chance of a source ?

A quick look on our friend and saviour "Google" would seem to indicate that quite a bit of the Bad Arolsen papers are already open via archives.
From what is mentioned so far it would above all else confirm that "The Reich" was very dependent on slave labour.
The Red Cross would seem to have had major access to these papers when asked to try and trace people who are "missing".