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Johnson
04-20-2006, 09:01 PM
God hardens Pharaoh's heart, interfering with Free Will. The Egyptian magicians reproduce three miracles which were give to Aaron by Yahweh – without the help of Yahweh – turning a rod into a snake, smiting the Nile into blood, and bringing frogs forth from the Nile. The fourth miracle – a plague of fleas – is unable to be reproduced by the Magi. This is called the 'Finger of God.' God kills all of the Egyptian livestock – but yet Pharaoh's army manages to chase after the Israelites in chariots. God, who is supposedly all loving and compassionate, kills every first born of Egypt, including the Pharaoh's. God instructs the Hebrews to smear lamb's blood on their door posts so that he can pass over their homes during his midnight slaughter - God is supposed to be omniscient and omnipresent.

Rod into serpent
7:9-12
When Pharao shall say to you, Shew signs; thou shalt say to Aaron: Take thy rod, and cast it down before Pharao, and it shall be turned into a serpent. So Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharao, and did as the Lord had commanded. And Aaron took the rod before Pharao and his servants, and it was turned into a serpent. And Pharao called the wise men and the magicians; and they also by Egyptian enchantments and certain secrets, did in like manner. And they every one cast down their rods, and they were turned into serpents: but Aaron's rod devoured their rods.

Nile into blood
7:17-22
Thus therefore saith the Lord: In this thou shalt know that I am the Lord: behold I will strike with the rod, that is in my hand, the water of the river, and it shall be turned into blood. And the fishes that are in the river, shall die, and the waters shall be corrupted, and the Egyptians shall be afflicted when they drink the water of the river. The Lord also said to Moses: Say to Aaron, Take thy rod; and stretch forth thy hand upon the waters of Egypt, and upon their rivers, and streams and pools, and all the ponds of waters, that they may be turned into blood: and let blood be in all the land of Egypt, both in vessels of wood and of stone. And Moses and Aaron did as the Lord had commanded: and lifting up the rod, he struck the water of the river before Pharao and his servants: and it was turned into blood. And the fishes that were in the river died; and the river corrupted, and the Egyptians could not drink the water of the river, and there was blood in all the land of Egypt. And the magicians of the Egyptians with their enchantments did in like manner; and Pharao's heart was hardened, neither did he hear them, as the Lord had commanded.

Frogs
8:5-7
And the Lord said to Moses: Say to Aaron: Stretch forth thy hand upon the streams, and upon the rivers and the pools, and bring forth frogs upon the land of Egypt. And Aaron stretched forth his hand upon the waters of Egypt, and the frogs came up, and covered the land of Egypt. And the magicians also, by their enchantments, did in like manner, and they brought forth frogs upon the land of Egypt.

Fleas (or lice)
8:16-19
And the Lord said to Moses: Say to Aaron: Stretch forth thy rod, and strike the dust of the earth; and may there be sciniphs in all the land of Egypt. And they did so. And Aaron stretched forth his hand, holding the rod; and he struck the dust of the earth, and there came sciniphs on men and on beasts: all the dust of the earth was turned into sciniphs through all the land of Egypt. And the magicians with their enchantments practiced in like manner, to bring forth sciniphs, and they could not: and there were sciniphs as well on men as on beasts. And the magicians said to Pharao: This is the finger of God. And Pharao's heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them, as the Lord had commanded.

Killing of the livestock
9:23-25
And Moses stretched forth his rod towards heaven, and the Lord sent thunder and hail, and lightnings running along the ground: and the Lord rained hail upon the land of Egypt. And the hail and fire mixt with it drove on together: and it was of so great bigness, as never before was seen in the whole land of Egypt since that nation was founded. And the hail destroyed through all the land of Egypt all things that were in the fields, both man and beast: and the hail smote every herb of the field, and it broke every tree of the country.

Slaughter of the firstborn
11:4-7
And he said: Thus saith the Lord: At midnight I will enter into Egypt: And every firstborn in the land of the Egyptians shall die, from the firstborn of Pharao who sitteth on his throne, even to the firstborn of the handmaid that is at the mill, and all the firstborn of beasts. And there shall be a great cry in all the land of Egypt, such as neither hath been before, nor shall be hereafter. But with all the children of Israel there shall not a dog make the least noise, from man even to beast; that you may know how wonderful a difference the Lord maketh between the Egyptians and Israel.

Blood on doorposts
12:21-23
And Moses called all the ancients of the children of Israel, and said to them: Go take a lamb by your families, and sacrifice the Phase. And dip a bunch of hyssop in the blood that is at the door, and sprinkle the transom of the door therewith, and both the door cheeks: let none of you go out of the door of his house till morning. For the Lord will pass through striking the Egyptians: and when he shall see the blood on the transom, and on both the posts, he will pass over the door of the house, and not suffer the destroyer to come into your houses and to hurt you.

Chariots
14:9
And when the Egyptians followed the steps of them who were gone before, they found them encamped at the sea side: all Pharao's horse and chariots and the whole army were in Phihahiroth, before Beelsephon.

jcs
04-20-2006, 09:54 PM
How many of these type of threads are you going to make?

God hardens Pharaoh's heart
Such that he would not be swayed easily by Moses, that the Egyptians would witness God's power.

interfering with Free Will.
In giving man being, God interferes with free will. In guiding the flow of events from his position beyond time, God interferes with free will. Every man is fundamentally free where important--that is, when it comes to the choice to accept or deny God, to do good or evil. But (to speculate here) where God sees no possibility in turning man's heart toward Him--and God knows all that is (and has been, and will be) and may be (all that is possible)--He may interfere with man such that others will come to God. Leibniz had an interesting theory for all this: the world as it is, is the best it could possibly be.

The Egyptian magicians reproduce three miracles which were give to Aaron by Yahweh – without the help of Yahweh – turning a rod into a snake, smiting the Nile into blood, and bringing frogs forth from the Nile.
The Bible doesn't say that sorcery and such is impossible, only that it is evil. The magicians didn't produce miracles, though.

God kills all of the Egyptian livestock – but yet Pharaoh's army manages to chase after the Israelites in chariots.
Livestock--cattle, pigs; not horses, obviously. Come on, even were Exodus authored by a man, any man attempting to make the book seem as if it were infallible would be sure not to produce a blatant contradiction as you claim this is.
Here's something I find amusing: when we read any secular work, we rarely if ever look for contradictions. "Nietzsche never contradicted himself!" Nietzsche's readers declare, but the Bible? Pfft. It claims to be true, therefore we should throw out all hermeneutics!
And the hail destroyed through all the land of Egypt all things that were in the fields, both man and beast
Plus, in this translation, we're told that the beasts in the field were killed. Some people keep horses in stables. And shouldn't you be protesting that all men died too? ;)

God, who is supposedly all loving and compassionate, kills every first born of Egypt, including the Pharaoh's.
Best of all possible worlds. Behold: the Power. Learn how to fear and respect it.

God instructs the Hebrews to smear lamb's blood on their door posts so that he can pass over their homes during his midnight slaughter - God is supposed to be omniscient and omnipresent.
Perhaps:
-He sent an angel
-this reminded the Hebrews that they ought to fear, respect, and obey God
-this is more dramatic and makes for a better story
?

Ahknaton
04-20-2006, 10:18 PM
The Bible doesn't say that sorcery and such is impossible, only that it is evil. The magicians didn't produce miracles, though.I'm curious, is it evil to learn sorcery, or only to practise it?

jcs
04-20-2006, 10:21 PM
I'm curious, is it evil to learn sorcery, or only to practise it?
Probably to practice it. I'd have to look up specific passages. The main idea behind considering sorcery evil is that it detracts from the awe owed to God alone, thus distracting both practitioners and those whom the practitioners themselves distract from God. Insofar as the study of sorcery (or... anything) could potentially draw one away from God, it too could be considered evil.

Friar Puck
04-21-2006, 03:04 AM
God instructs the Hebrews to smear lamb's blood on their door posts so that he can pass over their homes during his midnight slaughter - God is supposed to be omniscient and omnipresent.
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God wants people to have faith in Him. "Faith without actions is dead." God used the blood, the most common redemptive symbol in Scripture, to show to the Egyptians that both their faith and God is real.
The Good Friar