Analysis: Agendas clash in Irish rescue ballet

[Gregz]

PARIS/BERLIN - In the murky ballet over a financial rescue for Ireland, the agendas of the key players in Europe are often at odds, clouding the message to markets and deepening the sense of crisis in the euro zone.

The latest country in the currency bloc to come under bond market pressure over its finances, Ireland is resisting a push from some European officials to apply for assistance out of an avowed determination to preserve its sovereignty, but probably also due to electoral considerations.

The European Commission and the European Central Bank have an interest in an early resolution to prevent contagion causing a wider euro area meltdown, as it threatened to do at the height of Greece's debt crisis in April.

Ireland's position is different because it is fully funded to mid-2011 and does not need to tap the markets immediately. But its state-guaranteed banks, weighed down by bad loans granted during a property boom, are largely shut out of inter-bank lending and heavily reliant on ECB funds.
.....
http://www.cnbc.com/id/40210324

[Gregz]

Thick Mick has fucked up good this time and Irish government should never of guaranteed its banking sector. :nono:

Greece is really the one that is fucked and it is not even meeting it's targets. Which is part the reason why they are fousing on Ireland. As the EU's Greek bailout hasn't worked and the Greeks are woging around.


Meanwhile, experts warned yesterday that Greece’s debt problems are much more severe than had originally been thought. Eurostat, the European Union’s statistics agency, said the country’s 2009 budget deficit and debt levels were higher than had been estimated.

This makes it unlikely Greece will reach targets set out in the bailout agreement. Its 2009 budget deficit reached 15.4% of gross domestic product, significantly above the previous estimate of a 13.6% deficit, Eurostat said.

Public debt stood at 126.8% of GDP at the end of last year, higher than that of any other EU state. In April, Eurostat had estimated the figure at 115.1% of GDP. Prime Minister George Papandreou insisted last week that his government would be able to reduce the deficit by at least 5.5% by the end of the year. But he conceded the revised figures would add pressure to cut costs, and said Greece could seek an extension for repaying its rescue loans..

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/world-news/fears-grow-over-irish-bailout-as-full-greek-debt-is-revealed-1.1068637

[cerberus]

Ireland, unfortunately is in deep trouble. :eurotard:

[Errigal]

Ireland, unfortunately is in deep trouble. :eurotard:

The EU is all about preventing another Hitler, you should be all over that.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1116/1224283411136.html

[Felix the Cat]

The EU (like various other post-war ideas and initiatives) now exists simply because it exists, not because it serves some actual purpose.

[Errigal]

The EU (like various other post-war ideas and initiatives) now exists simply because it exists, not because it serves some actual purpose.

Well we haven't had any more Hitlers or Holocausts have we?

[Steinbrink]

The EU (like various other post-war ideas and initiatives) now exists simply because it exists, not because it serves some actual purpose.

open borders, equality, the undermining of NATIONAL sovereignty...etc etc etc...

Think about it.

One can't create a Communist international if there's still National borders hanging about.

[Gregz]

The EU (like various other post-war ideas and initiatives) now exists simply because it exists, not because it serves some actual purpose.

MEP's get paid 400K EUR a year to talk shop and are like pigs at the trough.

[Felix the Cat]

open borders, equality, the undermining of NATIONAL sovereignty...etc etc etc... ^^ these policies, applied without thought, will eventually bring into existence the very nationalist radicalism they're intended to suppress. This should be obvious.

"Open borders" used to be about getting Europeans (in particular the French and Germans) to get to know and trust each other. Now it means crazy wogs rioting and blowing things up in formerly peaceful communities.

Every other major policy of the EU/liberal state apparatus has undergone a similar drift away from its original purpose.

[Gregz]

One can't create a Communist international if there's still National borders hanging about.

The Irish state is clearly criminally insane. Since Ireland's deregulated banking sector has somehow managed to rack up a cool 120 billion EUR in debts. Which is why Irish bonds yeilds are at 8% and they are bleeding capital due to flight.

Now that the entire Irish banking sector is effectively insolvent and in the hands of the state. The EU's banksters and the financial terrorists at the IMF are getting really worried.

I'm not buying into the idea that all of that debt is residential property debt based and the banksters have clearly over invested in Ireland's industrial/economic expansion. :rolleyes:

[cerberus]

Errigal
The EU is all about preventing another Hitler, you should be all over that.


Errigal
Well we haven't had any more Hitlers or Holocausts have we?


I'll let you break the news to Basil and Alex....for that matter resurrect Burrhus.
;) :kiss:

I just hope it all works out for the average man in the street or Basil might be joining "Google", I just hope they don't ask for a practical demonstartion as part of the interview process. :whip: :(

As a retired lady farmer from Northern Donegal whom I used to work with might have said " it will tighten the dung in him".
( A saying for making him work harder / give one something to think about).

[Steinbrink]

^^ these policies, applied without thought, will eventually bring into existence the very nationalist radicalism they're intended to suppress. This should be obvious.

true.

which is why we have a society of heavy surveillance. Their strategy may be to behead the Nationalists by beheading the radicals when they pop their heads above parapet.


"Open borders" sed to be about getting Europeans (in particular the French and Germans) to get to know and trust each other. Now it means crazy wogs rioting and blowing things up in formerly peaceful communities.

Every other major policy of the EU/liberal state apparatus has undergone a similar drift away from its original purpose.
The EU was established with no other intention than to get the people of europe to give up their national identities and become egalitarian. National boundaries are contrary to judaism and it's zionist aims. In judaism shabbos goys are not have identity, tradition or religion. Hence the egalitarinism in every ZOG state.

[Steinbrink]

The Irish state is clearly criminally insane. Since Ireland's deregulated banking sector has somehow managed to rack up a cool 120 billion EUR in debts. Which is why Irish bonds yeilds are at 8% and they are bleeding capital due to flight.

Now that the entire Irish banking sector is effectively insolvent and in the hands of the state. The EU's banksters and the financial terrorists at the IMF are getting really worried.

I'm not buying into the idea that all of that debt is residential property debt based and the banksters have clearly over invested in Ireland's industrial/economic expansion. :rolleyes:

Like with Greece, Portugal, and soon to be Spain and Italy, Ireland's position is all about the centralisation of power in to the hands of some jew backed fancy administrators sat in Brussels.

The key to gaining that power is by asserting direct control over the economic systems of the EU member countries through debts to the European central bank.

Once brussels has total economic control over the people of Europe, the Kommisars (commisioners) can do what ever they like.

[Felix the Cat]

The EU is anti-nationalist and anti-christian because these are things that cause Europeans to quarrel with each other (just look at this forum). That's the bottom line. Of course Jews also support these causes (http://www.thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=847178&postcount=46) but to claim the EU is all got up by them is over the top.

[Steinbrink]

You need to learn about who the string pullers are. The EU is like America, it's run by the bankers. The Politicians, whcih the public sees and hears in the news, don't make any decisions.

[Gregz]

Like with Greece, Portugal, and soon to be Spain and Italy, Ireland's position is all about the centralisation of power in to the hands of some jew backed fancy administrators sat in Brussels.

The key to gaining that power is by asserting direct control over the economic systems of the EU member countries through debts to the European central bank.

Once brussels has total economic control over the people of Europe, the Kommisars (commisioners) can do what ever they like.

They have to shake by forcing them to agree to loans. However the Irish still have reserves. Ireland's not like the other PIIGS and the EU and IMF bankers will want the Irish banking sector back in there hands. As the Irish state, now has direct control of the entire countries loan book.

However there won't be any Privatisation. Don't you see what they are doing? All the Irish need do now is dicth the EUR, issue a new silver backed currency and knock out, securitised bonds. :rofl:

[Steinbrink]

They have to shake by forcing them to agree to loans.
However the Irish still have reserves. Ireland's not like the other PIIGS and the EU and IMF bankers will want the Irish banking sector back in there hands. As the Irish state, now has direct control of the entire countries loan book.


from the other day......

Loan expected amid Irish debt crisis visit
By the CNN Wire Staff
November 18, 2010 -- Updated 1612 GMT (0012 HKT)
Irish Finance Minister Brian Lenihan faces journalists after a meeting of EU finance ministers in Brussels.

Dublin, Ireland (CNN) -- Officials from the International Monetary Fund and European Central Bank were in Ireland on Thursday to examine the country's debt crisis -- a visit that could result in a substantial loan, the head of the Irish Central Bank said.

The bank's governor, Patrick Honohan, told state broadcaster RTE the negotiations with the IMF and European officials were not about a bailout, but would lead to a loan of tens of billions of euros to Ireland.

.....

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/11/18/ireland.debt/?hpt=T2



However there won't be any Privatisation. Don't you see what they are doing? All the Irish need do now is dicth the EUR, issue a new silver backed currency and knock out, securitised bonds. :rofl:
possible true, and I wish it was because without the EURO the EU is sunk. My hunch though is that Brussels is trying to tighten the economic noose before trying again with the EU constitution.

[cerberus]

Ireland just been offered a £7 billion sterling loan to shore up her increasingly desperate financial situation, sterling not being responsible for the debts of the Eurozone but with a substantive trade with The Irish Republic the knock on effect on the delicate UK economy is in part a motivating factor.
GB has describe Ireland as being "a friend in need".

Things are going to get even rougher in Irish politics and the effect on the general public and tax payers will be extreme.

[Steinbrink]

CNN) -- Europe and the International Monetary Fund began to hammer out final details of an Irish rescue package worth tens of billions Monday, after the government in Dublin admitted the country needed financial help.
Ireland formally requested substantial "financial assistance" from the European Union and IMF, Prime Minister Brian Cowen said Sunday night.
"I want to assure the Irish people that we have a better future before us," Cowen said in announcing the request, as well as pledging substantial budget cuts and tax hikes.
Ireland needs funds to shore up its struggling banking sector and buttress the government, which has poured billions into saving the banks.

.....

At Sunday night's press conference in Dublin, which followed a meeting of Cowen's cabinet, Lenihan said the country would ask for less than 100 billion euros from the EU and the IMF. Last May, those two bodies bailed Greece out to the tune of 110 billion euros (currently $150 billion).
Cowen said that the government planned to cut 6 billion euros before it wraps its current budgetary cycle on December 7, and planned to eliminate a total of 15 billion euros over the next four years.


looks like Ireland will have to sign the treaty.

[cerberus]

Steinbrink

looks like Ireland will have to sign the treaty.

The Irish government really have no other options on the table.

[Gregz]

Ireland just been offered a £7 billion sterling loan to shore up her increasingly desperate financial situation, sterling not being responsible for the debts of the Eurozone but with a substantive trade with The Irish Republic the knock on effect on the delicate UK economy is in part a motivating factor. GB has describe Ireland as being "a friend in need".

Things are going to get even rougher in Irish politics and the effect on the general public and tax payers will be extreme.

The situation in Ireland looks really bad, as they are cutting around 30 billion from public spending, over the next view years. Whilst yanking up taxes, which will force the Irish to emigrate. Now that the country is in the hands of the IMF the Irish are fucked.


Ireland's prime minister is under pressure to quit.



Coalition partner demands general election
Backbenchers in Brian Cowen's own party want him to go
PM's credibility 'shattered' by economic bailout
Green party says Irish 'misled and betrayed'


http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/22/ireland-pm-pressure-quit-general-election

The British can get away with being in debt. However have you seen their new policies? Get this they are planing to take away people council houses and give them to so-called immigrants.

The thorny issue of how to handle immigrants' housing needs will be retained by Whitehall.

The government today announced a radical package of measures allowing local authorities to offer council homes on short-term lets rather than for life, stopping children inheriting new tenancies, and giving authorities the powers to shuffle the homeless to areas outside borough limits in a bid to stop council housing becoming a "poverty trap".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/nov/22/charities-condemn-plans-to-reform-council-tenancies

[Steinbrink]

The Irish government really have no other options on the table.

They were lured into it.

20 years of cheap-credit and funding from the EU.

[cerberus]

Nobody lured anybody into anything, my eldest lad worked in Dublin for 3 years and he saw this coming.....why did the Irish government miss it !!!!

[Steinbrink]

The government never missed it.

It's all arranged.

[calvin]

That fat tit, Cowan was at the Bilderberg meeting last week, 'course the government saw it coming. Why would any government ask the IMF for help? The IMF are shit. They screw up everything they handle.

People are tripping over their own vanity here trying to understand the "complex" world of international finance and economics. It's not difficult! A cabal of transnational elite organizations and financial crime families are pulling off a global money lending racket. The financial terrorists are leaving envelopes of cash on every doorstep and promoting their cheap worthless baubles (designer lifestyle shite) which are snapped up by their victims. Now that the bait has been swallowed good and proper, they are reeling in their bloated fish. The debt accrued in the consumption of objects of artificial value (degrees in sociology and art history, among them) is being paid back by asset stripping the people of things of real value, houses, jobs, education, healthcare, freedom...stuff like that. The Irish should have used their army to round up the whole Bilderberg crime syndicate when they had the chance. A few waterboardings and mock executions would have done a lot more to enhance Ireland's financial prospects that sucking IMF dick ever will.

[Gregz]

The government never missed it.

It's all arranged.

I agree, the Irish government are crooks, which is why they did nothing to regulate the Irish banking system. That country is very corrupt and it has always been like that. :irish:

[Errigal]

I agree, the Irish government are crooks, which is why they did nothing to regulate the Irish banking system. That country is very corrupt and it has always been like that. :irish:

This roughly speaking is true but it's worth pointing out that Iceland got itself in a similar mess and they're a different country with what seems to be quite a different political culture.

[Gregz]

The Irish should have used their army to round up the whole Bilderberg crime syndicate when they had the chance. A few waterboardings and mock executions would have done a lot more to enhance Ireland's financial prospects that sucking IMF dick ever will.

They should never of guaranteed the Irish banking sector. Now Ireland much like Greece is basically finished and they won't have any public services and
will be never out from underneath the IMF. I'd say that civil unrest is likely in both of these nations in a few years.

[Gregz]

This roughly speaking is true but it's worth pointing out that Iceland got itself in a similar mess and they're a different country with what seems to be quite a different political culture.

Don't kid yourself, they are all crooks and it's only a question as to what degree. The Irish locked far to much capital into overvalued properties. However I suppose at least it's a tangible asset class.

Iceland is better off than Ireland, as it has resources "fisheries" and lets face it it's not a 'proper' country. The Russians bailed the Icelanders out and they have seemingly been crawling to them ever since. :rofl:

Global debt levels, taxes and inflation are far to high now and the economic situation is clearly very serious. All rather worrying isn't it?

[Basil Fawlty]

They have to shake by forcing them to agree to loans. However the Irish still have reserves. Ireland's not like the other PIIGS and the EU and IMF bankers will want the Irish banking sector back in there hands. As the Irish state, now has direct control of the entire countries loan book.

However there won't be any Privatisation. Don't you see what they are doing? All the Irish need do now is dicth the EUR, issue a new silver backed currency and knock out, securitised bonds. :rofl:But earlier you called them "thick micks", do try and make up your mind.

[Gregz]

But earlier you called them "thick micks", do try and make up your mind.

I got tipped off that you where going down and have known for sometime. However it's far worse than I even had thought. Your looking at €80bn+ EUR in toxic assets out of €120bn in addition to your present already 'doubled up' national debts. So Ireland's national debt is set to double to €150bn. Which means that taxes will probable have to rise by around 50%.

If the economy recovers within the next few years and asset prices appreciate. Then they can refloat the banks. However the banks losses will be such, that the Irish state is unlikely to recover more than say €40bn.

However a good deal depends upon what the EUR does. As it will likely collapse under the weight of the EZ's debts. Short of selling your gold/currency reserves and buying your own bonds. I don't see what else you can do, as you have effectively just defaulted.

So much for the luck of the Irish! :rofl:

[Basil Fawlty]

I got tipped off and I have known that you where going down for sometime.Really? I've known it for many years now.
However it's far worse than I even had thought. Your looking at €80bn+ EUR in toxic assets out of €120bn in addition to your present already doubled up national debts. So Ireland's national debt is set to double to €150bn. Which means that taxes will probable have to rise by around 50%.

If the economy recovers within the next few years and asset prices appreciate. Then they can refloat the banks. However the banks losses will be such, that the Irish state is unlikely to recover more than say €40bn.

However a good deal depends upon what the EUR does. As it will likely collapse under the weight of the EZ's debts. Short of selling your gold/currency reserves and buying your own bonds. I don't see what else you can do, as you have in effect just defaulted.

So much for the luck of the Irish! :rofl:Don't underestimate the ability of the gombeenery to play things to their advantage.

Anyway, I'm not concerned about all this, I'm only interested in executions.

[Kodos]

The Irish are crooked but they'll deal with this better then Iceland (which will in their Nordic honestly insist on repaying every dime to their international swindlers) the Irish so won't...

[Steinbrink]

Might as well face the potato diet again.

[Steinbrink]

This roughly speaking is true but it's worth pointing out that Iceland got itself in a similar mess and they're a different country with what seems to be quite a different political culture.

As GregZ hinted, the situation in Iceland is the same as Ireland.

Politicians, in whatever country, are nothing but Crooks.

[cerberus]

Steinbrink
Politicians, in whatever country, are nothing but Crooks.

Not all are,crooks but many fall into that category.

[Lud]

The Irish are crooked but they'll deal with this better then Iceland (which will in their Nordic honestly insist on repaying every dime to their international swindlers) the Irish so won't...


I don't understand this. Are you saying it is "crooked" not to scrupulously honor debts induced by international swindlers? Would you?