The rich get richer - domestic disparities skyrocketing

[Donny the Punk]

A new report on CEO salaries has calculated that the average Chief Executive Officer earns 430 times as much as the average American worker. This figure has steadily increased over the past 25 years, when CEO salaries averaged just $10 for every $1 the workers earned. Along with obscene salaries for the CEOs, share holders also regularly pay for perks such as cash bonuses, stock options, retirement packages, free cars, subsidized housing, corporate apartments, personal jets, free tax consulting, entertainment, dining and personal security services. Some of the worst examples of CEO bonuses are $1.6 billion in stock options given to the CEO of United Health Group, a $400 million retirement package for the CEO of Exxon Mobile (the poor guy only earns $51 million a year), and an $83 million pension for the CEO of Pfizer. And if you were wondering where the gas price profits are going, check out the salary of Ray Irani of Occidental, who earned $63 million last year, or about $120 for every minute of every day of the year.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/04/24/Columns/CEO_pay_eclipses_ridi.shtml

[Vindex]

Welcome to the Wolf Age where plutocratic gangsters plundering their own people is the norm.

[il ragno]

About 10-11 years ago, I came across an article on CEO salaries where figures like $30, $50 and $75 million (being paid not to entrepreneurs who had revolutionized the ,arket somehow buyt to glorified administrators careful to not distinguish themnselves - or be visible - in any way) were becoming par for the course, and I thought it was a scandal then.

Yet whenever I mentioned it to anyone I got the most baleful looks - as though I was handing out Wobbly literature. And there are any number of nominally college-educated flks who believe that a 10 or 20-to-1 dollar disparity between owner and worker becoming a 100, 200 and now 400-to-1 ratio were a natural and even healthy occurrence. I can't tell you how many folks responded with curt truisms about the free market knows best and if they hadn't earned it they wouldn't be getting it.

Then people wonder why the battle against illegal immigrants is such a Sisyphean task, or how the myth of jobs Americans (or Frenchmen, or Germans, or Swedes) won't do gained so much traction. I guess the idea of the man earning $150 mill per annum plus stock options wanting to replace your salary and workmen's comp with a drone who'll perform your task for a flat per-diem is too awful to entertain somehow, even though it's happing with matyter-of-fact regularity. We are witnessing METROPOLIS taking shape for real before our eyes. But maybe the more apropos film quotaton is CHINATOWN, when the gumshoe confronts the industrialist who has cheerfully committed murder and conspiracy to control the LA water rights:

Jake Gittes: I just want to know what you're worth. Over ten million?
Noah Cross: Oh my, yes.
Jake Gittes: Why are you doing it? How much better can you eat? What can you buy that you can't already afford?
Noah Cross: The future, Mr. Gitts.......the future.

I aso look on with apprehension at a new trend, one that is being routinely, unquestioningly accepted at face value as a good thing: robotization of menial tasks.

Once robotization becomes a natural part of the landscape, what happens to that sea of office drones and "service workers" when and if the economy suffers a deep downturn or implosion a la the Great Depression? Once upon a time, it was normal to shoot strikers and Bonus Marchers - to view them as rabble to put put down by force. Will they be viewed or treated even that humanely once machines, mestizos and H-1Bs are in place to make sure the lights stay on, the garbage is picked up and the trains are running? Opening fire on whoever's left, disaffected and organizing, will be almost de rigeur by that point.

[Felix the Cat]

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/oliphant/vc007245.jpg

[Sinclair]

Income disparity is generally a bad thing for society.

People are more "loyal" to a society when they feel they can get a fair shake.

When no matter what they do, being born poor means they'll stay poor, while some worthless rich person who was born rich and can do whatever they want, because they're never gonna be poor... Why should the poor people be loyal?

That in the US some of the poorer parts of the country go Republican is just amazing.

[Faustian Dreams]

The disparity will continue to grow, and along with it, lower-class folk will have their jobs replaced by more efficient computers. For example: at a train station, you have the option of purchasing tickets from a human being at a booth, or from one of the automated machines along the track. Upon my first experience with an exceptionally disgruntled and rude fellow working for NJ Transit, I've since began using the machines exclusively.

In shopping centers, one may encounter the self-checkout aisles. Soon, these will be your only option, and slowly the trend will take over many other menial labor positions. Who funds them? The filthy rich, who are intent on becoming filthier and richer.

So, as the lower-class is sidelined for robots, the poverty level will increase. Crime will increase, and the upper-middle-class philanthropists will keep putting Band-Aids on an issue that is really asking for sutures.

This process is inevitable; we've had similar incidents in the past. One would think that some form of progress (*cough*) would have relieved humanity of having to resort to bloody revolutions to temporarily embetter the toiling majority, but as we become divorced from our past with increasing frequency (how many Americans can recall every major event from the past decade? from the past twenty years?) it is not without reason that one could conclude we will simply never learn.

...After all, when we're all busy trying to get what's ours (:rolleyes:), who's got time to make the necessary changes?

[Dan Dare]

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2826/crumb016nj.th.gif (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crumb016nj.gif)


http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9484/crumb021lz.th.gif (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crumb021lz.gif)


http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5600/crumb037nl.th.gif (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crumb037nl.gif)

[Lenny]

"I think there's something odd about these polls.
Twenty-nine percent approval with the economy the way it is?
It just doesn't make sense, folks."
-- Rush Limbaugh

Rush makes more than $30M a year, and he can't understand why the poor would complain
that Bush raided Social Security and Medicare to give the super-rich more money to spend.

Remember last week, Bush was crowing about the amazing housing market?
Turns out 40 percent of new home purchases are second homes.

The super-rich bought houses with Bush's tax refunds.

What did you buy with your refund?
Lunch?


http://www.bartcop.com/1765.htm

[Lenny]

That in the US some of the poorer parts of the country go Republican is just amazing.You just dont understand America, Sinclair.

First of all it's not "some of the poorer parts of the US", it's "poorer whites in some parts of the US", non-whites are not voting Republican at all, and never have (in modern times). The reason is because Democratic party in the past 45-50 years is/was seen as anti-white pro-integrationist/pro-black, pro-immigration, pro-welfare, and on and on. So non-rich whites in racially 'diverse' areas have voted Republican

[IlluSionS667]

Below I present you protocol 6 of the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm#Table%20of%20Contents)". This infamous document was written about 100 years ago and has been attributed by some to the first Zionist congress at the time. Nevertheless, after much speculation, the real author remains unknown as does the origin of the document.

Nevertheless, the establishment clings on to the idea that they are forgeries. Somehow I have my objections to that idea. Perhaps it becomes obvious once you read the following extract. Remember that the orriginal document is about 100 years old.

PROTOCOL No. 6

1. We shall soon begin to establish huge monopolies, reservoirs of colossal riches, upon which even large fortunes of the GOYIM will depend to such an extent that they will go to the bottom together with the credit of the States on the day after the political smash ... (Compulsory superannuation, Social Security).

2. You gentlemen here present who are economists, just strike an estimate of the significance of this combination! ...

3. In every possible way we must develop the significance of our Super-Government by representing it as the Protector and Benefactor of all those who voluntarily submit to us.

4. The aristocracy of the GOYIM as a political force, is dead - We need not take it into account; but as landed proprietors they can still be harmful to us from the fact that they are self-sufficing in the resources upon which they live. It is essential therefore for us at whatever cost to deprive them of their land. This object will be best attained by increasing the burdens upon landed property - in loading lands with debts. These measures will check land-holding and keep it in a state of humble and unconditional submission.

5. The aristocrats of the GOYIM, being hereditarily incapable of contenting themselves with little, will rapidly burn up and fizzle out.

WE SHALL ENSLAVE THE GOYIM

6. At the same time we must intensively patronize trade and industry, but, first and foremost, speculation, the part played by which is to provide a counterpoise to industry: the absence of speculative industry will multiply capital in private hands and will serve to restore agriculture by freeing the land from indebtedness to the land banks. What we want is that industry should drain off from the land both labor and capital and by means of speculation transfer into our hands all the money of the world, and thereby throw all the GOYIM into the ranks of the proletariat. Then the GOYIM will bow down before us, if for no other reason but to get the right to exist.

7. To complete the ruin of the industry of the GOYIM we shall bring to the assistance of speculation the luxury which we have developed among the GOYIM, that greedy demand for luxury which is swallowing up everything. WE SHALL RAISE THE RATE OF WAGES WHICH, HOWEVER, WILL NOT BRING ANY ADVANTAGE TO THE WORKERS, FOR, AT THE SAME TIME, WE SHALL PRODUCE A RISE IN PRICES OF THE FIRST NECESSARIES OF LIFE, ALLEGING THAT IT ARISES FROM THE DECLINE OF AGRICULTURE AND CATTLE-BREEDING: WE SHALL FURTHER UNDERMINE ARTFULLY AND DEEPLY SOURCES OF PRODUCTION, BY ACCUSTOMING THE WORKERS TO ANARCHY AND TO DRUNKENNESS AND SIDE BY SIDE THEREWITH TAKING ALL MEASURE TO EXTIRPATE FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH ALL THE EDUCATED FORCES OF THE "GOYIM."

8. IN ORDER THAT THE TRUE MEANING OF THINGS MAY NOT STRIKE THE "GOYIM" BEFORE THE PROPER TIME WE SHALL MASK IT UNDER AN ALLEGED ARDENT DESIRE TO SERVE THE WORKING CLASSES AND THE GREAT PRINCIPLES OF POLITICAL ECONOMY ABOUT WHICH OUR ECONOMIC THEORIES ARE CARRYING ON AN ENERGETIC PROPAGANDA.

[Count Eustace II]

A Fox News addict came up to me the other day to tell me that the USA is "the most free country in the world". "Anybody can make it big here", he said.

I said, "What's your excuse then?"

American's are too blinded by propaganda to even care that the income disparity is growing so incredibly large. Most Fox News Americans believe that it's good for business when the barons can assume massive amounts of gold while they themselves struggle to pay rent, food, and their credit card debts. The average American is a slave but lives with under an illusion that they're so special. People of other nations know they are slaves without the illusion that they're anything else. The people of other nations enjoy life more than an overworked, stressed out, foolish American. Why does the American government insist on brainwashing it's subjects in such a pernicious way?

[Dark Lord]

It's an absolute scandal what is happening. The biggest employers today are "temporary labour agencies", i.e. companies who hire scabs for menial jobs while fleecing a portion of their hourly pay. Corporations love it because they don't have to give any benefits or security to these workers, while keeping their own workforce in check from clamoring for any improvement to their working conditions by the threat of being easily replaced. In the end, the corporations and "labour agencies" profit, while the average worker is unsure whether he has a job when he wakes up the next morning. Capitalist tyranny is promoted as "freedom", "democracy" with a highly organized propaganda system, while most people suffer in debt-ridden serfdom.





Dark Lord.

[Spitfire]

A Fox News addict came up to me the other day to tell me that the USA is "the most free country in the world". "Anybody can make it big here", he said.

I said, "What's your excuse then?"

American's are too blinded by propaganda to even care that the income disparity is growing so incredibly large. Most Fox News Americans believe that it's good for business when the barons can assume massive amounts of gold while they themselves struggle to pay rent, food, and their credit card debts. The average American is a slave but lives with under an illusion that they're so special. People of other nations know they are slaves without the illusion that they're anything else. The people of other nations enjoy life more than an overworked, stressed out, foolish American. Why does the American government insist on brainwashing it's subjects in such a pernicious way?

Half of Americans are considered obese by scientific standards.

A nation of fatties whose main concern in life is stuffing their fat faces is going to be easy fodder for social engineers.

Yeah, I'm the bad man for pointing out the obvious. Sue me.

Also, the real meaning of the initials USA is Usury Slaves of America. Or Under Satan's Administration. Take your pick.

[IlluSionS667]

Why does the American government insist on brainwashing it's subjects in such a pernicious way?

Let me refer to Protocol 16 of the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm)" to answer that question :

PROTOCOL No. 16

1. In order to effect the destruction of all collective forces except ours we shall emasculate the first stage of collectivism - the UNIVERSITIES, by re-educating them in a new direction. THEIR OFFICIALS AND PROFESSORS WILL BE PREPARED FOR THEIR BUSINESS BY DETAILED SECRET PROGRAMS OF ACTION FROM WHICH THEY WILL NOT WITH IMMUNITY DIVERGE, NOT BY ONE IOTA. THEY WILL BE APPOINTED WITH ESPECIAL PRECAUTION, AND WILL BE SO PLACED AS TO BE WHOLLY DEPENDENT UPON THE GOVERNMENT.

2. We shall exclude from the course of instruction State Law as also all that concerns the political question. These subjects will be taught to a few dozen of persons chosen for their pre-eminent capacities from among the number of the initiated. THE UNIVERSITIES MUST NO LONGER SEND OUT FROM THEIR HALLS MILK SOPS CONCOCTING PLANS FOR A CONSTITUTION, LIKE A COMEDY OR A TRAGEDY, BUSYING THEMSELVES WITH QUESTIONS OF POLICY IN WHICH EVEN THEIR OWN FATHERS NEVER HAD ANY POWER OF THOUGHT.

3. The ill-guided acquaintance of a large number of persons with questions of polity creates utopian dreamers and bad subjects, as you can see for yourselves from the example of the universal education in this direction of the GOYIM. We must introduce into their education all those principles which have so brilliantly broken up their order. But when we are in power we shall remove every kind of disturbing subject from the course of education and shall make out of the youth obedient children of authority, loving him who rules as the support and hope of peace and quiet.

WE SHALL CHANGE HISTORY

4. Classicism as also any form of study of ancient history, in which there are more bad than good examples, we shall replace with the study of the program of the future. We shall erase from the memory of men all facts of previous centuries which are undesirable to us, and leave only those which depict all the errors of the government of the GOYIM. The study of practical life, of the obligations of order, of the relations of people one to another, of avoiding bad and selfish examples, which spread the infection of evil, and similar questions of an educative nature, will stand in the forefront of the teaching program, which will be drawn up on a separate plan for each calling or state of life, in no wise generalizing the teaching. This treatment of the question has special importance.

5. Each state of life must be trained within strict limits corresponding to its destination and work in life. The OCCASIONAL GENIUS HAS ALWAYS MANAGED AND ALWAYS WILL MANAGE TO SLIP THROUGH INTO OTHER STATES OF LIFE, BUT IT IS THE MOST PERFECT FOLLY FOR THE SAKE OF THIS RARE OCCASIONAL GENIUS TO LET THROUGH INTO RANKS FOREIGN TO THEM THE UNTALENTED WHO THUS ROB OF THEIR PLACES THOSE WHO BELONG TO THOSE RANKS BY BIRTH OR EMPLOYMENT. YOU KNOW YOURSELVES IN WHAT ALL THIS HAS ENDED FOR THE "GOYIM" WHO ALLOWED THIS CRYING ABSURDITY.

6. In order that he who rules may be seated firmly in the hearts and minds of his subjects it is necessary for the time of his activity to instruct the whole nation in the schools and on the market places about this meaning and his acts and all his beneficent initiatives.

7. We shall abolish every kind of freedom of instruction. Learners of all ages have the right to assemble together with their parents in the educational establishments as it were in a club: during these assemblies, on holidays, teachers will read what will pass as free lectures on questions of human relations, of the laws of examples, of the philosophy of new theories not yet declared to the world. These theories will be raised by us to the stage of a dogma of faith as a traditional stage towards our faith. On the completion of this exposition of our program of action in the present and the future I will read you the principles of these theories.

8. In a word, knowing by the experience of many centuries that people live and are guided by ideas, that these ideas are imbibed by people only by the aid of education provided with equal success for all ages of growth, but of course by varying methods, we shall swallow up and confiscate to our own use the last scintilla of independence of thought, which we have for long past been directing towards subjects and ideas useful for us. The system of bridling thought is already at work in the so-called system of teaching by OBJECT LESSONS, the purpose of which is to turn the GOYIM into unthinking submissive brutes waiting for things to be presented before their eyes in order to form an idea of them .... In France, one of our best agents, Bourgeois, has already made public a new program of teaching by object lessons.

[Northern_Paladin]

A Fox News addict came up to me the other day to tell me that the USA is "the most free country in the world". "Anybody can make it big here", he said.

I said, "What's your excuse then?"

American's are too blinded by propaganda to even care that the income disparity is growing so incredibly large. Most Fox News Americans believe that it's good for business when the barons can assume massive amounts of gold while they themselves struggle to pay rent, food, and their credit card debts. The average American is a slave but lives with under an illusion that they're so special. People of other nations know they are slaves without the illusion that they're anything else. The people of other nations enjoy life more than an overworked, stressed out, foolish American. Why does the American government insist on brainwashing it's subjects in such a pernicious way?

Income disparity, is the inevitable side effect of Capitalism. It's not that unfair if you think about it. Each man is paid for what he is worth. It's a lot easier to advance one's social standing in America than else where.

Nobody believes it's good to be poor. But you say being poor is not a choice, it is more a side effect of stupidy and laziness.
It would make no sense to condemn business barons because in America they are a role model for all.

[IlluSionS667]

Income disparity, is the inevitable side effect of Capitalism. It's not that unfair if you think about it. Each man is paid for what he is worth.

That's bullshit. Some people earn fortunes by exploiting others, while many others earn peanuts by working their butt off every single day. How is that being paid for what you're worth?

It's all a matter of networking. Know the right people and you can get anywhere. Don't know them and be very very lucky. In most cases, you're just a cog in the system, regardless of how smart and skillful you are.

It's a lot easier to advance one's social standing in America than else where.

If you start from the bottom and you have no connections, that's far from the case. Some people have to do two jobs just to pay for their rent, their food and basic living conditions. In the meanwhile, their children don't get enough time to spend with their parents and become horrible people.

America used to be the land of opportunity: the land where you could get into with little more than your shoes and your clothes and become a multi-millionaire if only your worked hard enough. That was a bit more than 100 years ago. Times have changed a lot since then.

But you say being poor is not a choice, it is more a side effect of stupidy and laziness.

That's bullshit. If you don't have enough money, you can't even send your kids to the right schools. These people are disadvantaged from the start.

It would make no sense to condemn business barons because in America they are a role model for all.

I thought Americans had become smarter than that. I guess I was wrong.

You're so bloody naieve.

[Count Eustace II]

Income disparity, is the inevitable side effect of Capitalism. It's not that unfair if you think about it. Each man is paid for what he is worth. It's a lot easier to advance one's social standing in America than else where.

Nobody believes it's good to be poor. But you say being poor is not a choice, it is more a side effect of stupidy and laziness.
It would make no sense to condemn business barons because in America they are a role model for all.

Illusion667, related a pretty decent response to your post here.

I'll just say that it's not what you know but who you know that determines how far you'll go in the earning/status category.

I mean look at George W Bush!!

[harjit]

America used to be the land of opportunity: the land where you could get into with little more than your shoes and your clothes and become a multi-millionaire if only your worked hard enough. That was a bit more than 100 years ago. Times have changed a lot since then.
I don't know much about economics but I would certainly guess that it would have been much harder for a poor person to become a millionaire 100 years ago than it is today.

[IlluSionS667]

I would certainly guess that it would have been much harder for a poor person to become a millionaire 100 years ago than it is today.

That's a fallacy. Around the early 20th century, America was filled with self-made millionaires. How many are there today?!

[harjit]

That's a fallacy. Around the early 20th century, America was filled with self-made millionaires. How many are there today?!
Plenty. I know a few myself.

The number of millionaires rose by 11 percent, to a record 8.3 million – the second biggest jump in the decade since they were surveyed.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12393877/

I see this kind of report all the time. It indicates that a huge amount of new wealth is being created.

Edit: I am not saying that there aren't millions of people being shafted. But opportunities to become wealthy are still very much alive in America.

[Jay]

Income disparity is generally a bad thing for society.

People are more "loyal" to a society when they feel they can get a fair shake.

When no matter what they do, being born poor means they'll stay poor, while some worthless rich person who was born rich and can do whatever they want, because they're never gonna be poor... Why should the poor people be loyal?

That in the US some of the poorer parts of the country go Republican is just amazing.

As another poster noted, poor minorities do NOT vote GOP. Only poor whites. And to know why that is, just ask: if you were white, why WOULD you vote Democrat?

I don't vote GOP either, but I'll be dead before I vote for a party that is blatantly anti-white.

[Northern_Paladin]

That's bullshit. Some people earn fortunes by exploiting others, while many others earn peanuts by working their butt off every single day. How is that being paid for what you're worth?

It's all a matter of networking. Know the right people and you can get anywhere. Don't know them and be very very lucky. In most cases, you're just a cog in the system, regardless of how smart and skillful you are.



If you start from the bottom and you have no connections, that's far from the case. Some people have to do two jobs just to pay for their rent, their food and basic living conditions. In the meanwhile, their children don't get enough time to spend with their parents and become horrible people.

America used to be the land of opportunity: the land where you could get into with little more than your shoes and your clothes and become a multi-millionaire if only your worked hard enough. That was a bit more than 100 years ago. Times have changed a lot since then.



That's bullshit. If you don't have enough money, you can't even send your kids to the right schools. These people are disadvantaged from the start.



I thought Americans had become smarter than that. I guess I was wrong.

You're so bloody naieve.

Do you think it's possible to live in a society where connections and social skills don't matter? Where everyone is on equal footing. I don't think I'm being naive just realistic.

America 100 years ago is about the same as America is today. America has never been a fair and equal society. 100 years ago was the Golden Age of the American Robber Barons and filthy working conditions for immigrants.

Times haven't changed. You either have to work hard and work smart or be born previlaged. As for the education part, I would say if you get good grades you shouldn't have a problem paying for College here in America. There are so many Scholarship and Government loan programs out there. I think America relatively speaking is a rather fair society.

I have the feeling you have some socialist leanings. Regardless I think all systems are pretty much the same. A few previlaged over class exploits the masses.

Illusion667, related a pretty decent response to your post here.

I'll just say that it's not what you know but who you know that determines how far you'll go in the earning/status category.

I mean look at George W Bush!!

I agree on George W Bush. But what about all the underprivilaged people that have succeeded in America. What about people like Jay Lo and Oprah Winfrey?

[reuben]

'everybody know's the fight was fixed, the poor stay poor and the rich get rich' Leonard Cohen

The fact that paladin can come up with examples like oprah winfrey or whatever is not the point. What is the point is that a moderately able pooor man and a moderatly able rich man will face completely different opportunity structures.

[IlluSionS667]

Do you think it's possible to live in a society where connections and social skills don't matter? Where everyone is on equal footing.

Hitler's Germany is perhaps the best example. All Germans (jews excluded) were given equal opportunity. Both rich and poor kids had to go to the same youth movements. Both rich and poor kind had to undergo physical labor when they were out of high school. Both rich and poor kind had to go to the army. Throughout these phases, real talent was handpicked and given special opportunities such as leadership of the HJ or RAD. This would then work as a steppingstone for a career. The fact that kids of all classes spent so many years together also narrowed the gap between the classes and hence deminish the hostility that has been there between different classes for so long. This is one example of how national socialism was far more social than socialism.

America 100 years ago is about the same as America is today. America has never been a fair and equal society. 100 years ago was the Golden Age of the American Robber Barons and filthy working conditions for immigrants.

Monopolisation has increased far more since the times of Hearst, Carnegie, Morgan and Rockefeller, although 100 years ago was indeed the time those men ruled the US. Let's just go a few decades more back, then. At that time, ANYONE could gain a fortune if he just have the balls to go to the west, settle down somewhere and start his own business. All you needed, was some way to get there.... and you could get there by doing some menial job and saving the very little money you get.

As for the education part, I would say if you get good grades you shouldn't have a problem paying for College here in America. There are so many Scholarship and Government loan programs out there.

It's not always possible to get good grades when you grow up in a ghetto or trailer park, even if you're a genius.

I have the feeling you have some socialist leanings.

I'm a national socialist, raised in a social-democracy. So yeah, I probably do ;)

Regardless I think all systems are pretty much the same. A few previlaged over class exploits the masses.

Not in Hitler's Germany.

I agree on George W Bush. But what about all the underprivilaged people that have succeeded in America. What about people like Jay Lo and Oprah Winfrey?

Those are the exceptions that prove the rule. They just happened to have been lucky to meet the right people at the right moment. Again, it's all about connections.

[Niko Bellic]

If America sucked as much as people in this thread seem to think, we wouldn't be having a debate about building walls on the borders to keep people out.

There is no poverty in the United States Of America! If you think you have it so bad, visit one of the third world shitholes I was sent to when I was in the army. That's poverty, and it's been eliminated in America.

[raven]

The reason why the illegals love to jump the border into the USA is because the wages they pay to illegals in the US is worth a lot if you ship it back to Mexico. :rofl: But yes, that alone does make the United States a much better country than a lot of what is out there.

As for whether America was better back 100 years ago, perhaps maybe for the middle-class (though I'm not too sure about that) but definately not for the working-class immigrants I can tell you that much. My great grandparents lived and worked in those really unsanitary conditions in Massachusetts 100 years ago and were poor. I also don't think they had minimum wage in those days, wages and the market were purely supply and demand then. This is why the masses were pretty much reduced to pretty shitty pay and working conditions. But yet my great grandparents were HAPPY with that compared to the alternative. According to my great grandpa, he made what he considered "good money" by agreeing to work with dangerous dyes in a factory. The illegal immigrants of today have it better in terms of working conditions than legal immigrants did a century ago.