Malvinas Fatherland War

[B-Pep]

I found a few articles on the conflict told from the point of view of an Argentinian who served in the war. It really shows us the bravery of the common Argentinian soldier (who had more or less his spirit as his only weapon) vs British fear of death and use of technology for dishonorable purposes. I liked this part:

"As for me, I had just received a telegram from my father, a Professor of History, telling me to fight on to the end

[WFHermans]

The Argentinians should have picked some negro African country to conquer, for instance Angola.

Quite sad to see white nations at war.

[cerberus]

I found a few articles on the conflict told from the point of view of an Argentinian who served in the war. It really shows us the bravery of the common Argentinian soldier (who had more or less his spirit as his only weapon) vs British fear of death and use of technology for dishonorable purposes. I liked this part:

I suggest you find and read two books by Martin Middlebrook:
"Operation Corporate" and "The Fight for The Malvinas - Argentine Forces in The Falklands War".

Your view of the British soldier in this small war is more than a little jaundiced.
There was nothing high tech about the fight for Tumbledown , Wireless Ridge, Mount Longdon or Twin Sisters.
There was nothing high Tech about the fight at Goose Green or the long march across the Falklands to fight the series of battles mentioned above.

The "knee jerk" reply which was here is removed and an apology insert to Nuctemeron for having made it .

[B-Pep]

The Argentinians should have picked some negro African country to conquer, for instance Angola.

Quite sad to see white nations at war.

It's not the same. This wasn't a fratricidal and unjust war like the allied involvement in WWII, this was a war for land that was taken from us by the British. The British have always played a very parasitical role in Argentina (until Peron came and built up our own industry) and I wish Argentina made another attempt to take the Malvinas back. Although it's probably too late, due to the neo-liberalism and increasingly jewish presence that has ruined my folk's iron spirit ever since the early 90's.


Your view of the British soldier in this small war is more than a little jaundiced.
There was nothing high tech about the fight for Tumbledown , Wireless Ridge, Mount Longdon or Twin Sisters.
There was nothing high Tech about the fight at Goose Green or the long march across the Falklands to fight the series of battles mentioned above.

LOL!

British soldiers had night vision, the most modern weaponry available, highly trained units, Chile and the United States as allies, billions of dollars to spend.

Argentinian conscripts had rifles that were considered obsolete in WWII, few supplies, few allies (none superpowers), and our soldiers were mostly conscripts (the initial invasion was with professional troops, the securing of the Malvinas was with conscripts) going up against the most well-known and powerful army in the world. Unfortunately heart was not enough to win the war (we didn't even have the will to be honest).

Fair fight, huh?

[cerberus]

billions of dollars to spend.

Do you really think so ?
The "Task Force" which was sent .
Do you really think it reflected "billions of $'s" ?
A motley collection of merchant ships , the majority unsuited to operations in the South Atlantic.
A force of Destroyers which were not designed or suited to the role they had to carry out.
A through deck carrier with very few Harriers and an elderly carrier ( HMS Hermes) which was removed from the breakers yard and in 24 hours made ready for sea ?
Not a mission was there million's of $'s to spend.

Night vision - the other lads had that as well , what did save the British - the Argentine troops used the same round - so captured ammo. could be used.

Correct me if I am wrong but those exocet missles , rather high tech stuff don't you think ?;)
America gave them sidewinders , no problem there , the french did more than they had to by way of making the exocet units operational.
Chile - she had her own issues with Argentina.

British soldiers had night vision, the most modern weaponry available
For example ??
What did the average soldier carry into battle - the rifles - exactly the same and the Falkands was an infantry war.
Odd to believe but a lot of your arms and destroyers came from GB !
The two assult ships the RN used - who was going to buy them - Argentina.
Argentinian conscripts
Your President was an utter fool , period.
The navy and air force - very professional - the fleet airarm in particular.
Unfortunatley ( for Argentina) they went for the escort ships rather than the supply ships - Atlantic Conveyor which was hit by accident proved to be a great loss and the main reason why the infantry had to walk to Stanley.

BTW night vision gear played little or no part in the battles fought.
If you want to know the nature of the battles fought take a look at the two books I mentioned to you- hard fought low tech battles.
The Britsh may have put their best men in the field , the Paras , the Marines , the Guards - but when you go to war you go to win - they did this.
The youngsters left on the Falklands - blame your President for that.
The reasons why no supplies got through is quite simple.
The Junta never thought that the British would come , they had not planned for that situation.
When the Belgrano was sunk , by a contact weapon , not a high tech weapon - the 25th May was withdrawn and the seas left to the Royal Navy.
The flights into Stanley - it must have resembled the 6th Army - too little too late and never enough.
The outcome of that little war was never clear cut , it was a close run thing.
Hi tech - in some quarters yes - but where it counted no - it was a hard arctic infantry war often fought at close quarters with infantry weapons.
You really have to read more about it.

[Felix the Cat]

Quite sad to see white nations at war.
Wikipedia claims that Argentina is 56% mestizo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina#Demographics)

Additionally, a study conducted by the "Service of Genetic Fingerprints" of the University of Buenos Aires determined that 56% of population has at least some indigenous Amerindian ancestry; a legacy of the country's almost complete absorption of the colonial mestizo majority by the waves of European migrations several times larger than the original population.

Is this for real?

[eggheadbanga]

The Argentinian versions of the SLR (designed in Belgium) were fully automatic, those carried by British troops not. Therefore many British troops picked up captured Argentinian rifles.

besides which, ever heard of the concept of self-determination? There may have been only a few islanders but they didn't want to be Argentinian. Same goes for other colonial relics like the Gibraltarians.

Personally, I'd get rid of the lot myself - waste of taxpayers' money.

[Ahknaton]

I don't see what's dishonourable about using high-tech weaponry if you have it. If you follow that argument to it's logical conclusion it's wrong to fight with guns against crossbows, crossbows against swords, swords against spears etc etc etc. Are the British supposed to turn off their night-vision goggles just to give the other guy a sporting chance?

What if you have a superior commanding officer to the soliders on the other side? Isn't that an "unfair advantage"? It's not sport. ""All's fair in love and war". Honour only comes into it when you are talking about avoiding the targeting of non-combatant civilians.

[cerberus]

I don't see what's dishonourable about using high-tech weaponry if you have it
In a shooting war you don't throw away any advantage you have- the other guy is trying to kill you.( after all).

If you are looking for soem sort of "Blackhawk Down" night vision war - you will be mistaken.

Waste of taxpayers money - there was a time when the tax payer was very glad to have the loyalty of the people of Gibraltar.
No Gib , no victory in North Africa.
Call me old fashioned but friendships should not be as disposable as some politicians would like them to be.

[Jimbo Gomez]

I don't see what's dishonourable about using high-tech weaponry if you have it. If you follow that argument to it's logical conclusion it's wrong to fight with guns against crossbows, crossbows against swords, swords against spears etc etc etc. Are the British supposed to turn off their night-vision goggles just to give the other guy a sporting chance?

What if you have a superior commanding officer to the soliders on the other side? Isn't that an "unfair advantage"? It's not sport. ""All's fair in love and war". Honour only comes into it when you are talking about avoiding the targeting of non-combatant civilians.


Obviously. Add to that that Argentina initiated the conflict. What sort of fool starts awar he cannot even hope to win?

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Gibraltar? That place is just a safe heaven for smuglers, tax evaders and all sort of unsavory people. Most of which, incidentaly, live on the Spanish side due to land limits, limits they have not ceased to expand illegaly on spanish ground (like the airport they do not want to share). Thats the only real reason for them being so faithful to the Queen as they know as soon as their status would change they would have to revert to being just one more little shitty vilage on the southern coast.
I would channel all refuse waters from the surounding regions to dump right into their harbor along with setting up most of the petrochemical plants and fart smelling paper plants just across the line. The stupidity of it is staggering. A colony on european metropolitan soil.

[cerberus]

Obviously. Add to that that Argentina initiated the conflict. What sort of fool starts a war he cannot even hope to win?

A fool called General Lepoldo Galtieri.

From Martin Middlebrook's "The battle for the Malvinas" (Viking.1989).

Major Guillermo Berazay, 3rd Regiment.
" I often spoke with a lday whose house we used - a nice woman.When the naval shelling started, she told me that she would notbe talking to me again but that she would like to say this: "Geographically, this may be considered part of Argentina, but this small boy is the third or fourth generation to be born here.We feel that the country belongs to us - not to England , not to Argentina - because we were born here, we live here and also, as you can see I am a forty-year old woman and I look sixty beacuse life here is very hard, but nobody has ever cared about us".

Private Adrian Gomez-Csher , 7th regiment.
"When we first arrived in the Malvinas, the general feeling was that the war- such as it was - was over; it had been won for Argentina on 2nd April.I only realised I was in a real war long after I returned home when I started to analyse what had happened to us.I thought that what we were doing at the timewas right, beacuse our Goverment had told us that it was right.But now I realise that so much of what we were told was rubbish and I think it was all wrong.It was a political mistake to go to war; they didn't realise who they were going to war with".

Anonymous Oficer.
"When I came back from the war I discovered that the enemy was not the British, but those who had taken Argentina into that situation.The relationship we had with the British forces was completely normal, but our relationship with some of our own superiors was completley abnormal.We were the victims of lies and wereshunned.A lot of my fellow officers would say the same thing - or at least they would think it".

Second -Lieuternant Augusto La Madrid , 6th Regiment.
"I think the British fought well ; I had a sporting respect for them, just like opponenst after a good rugger match, even if you have lost.But I have not lost hope that one day I might fight again in the Malvinas with better equipment, better training and settle the debt for those of my men who died there."

Time has moved on , this war is history - a war which should naver have taken place, lives which should never have been lost. Lives wasted.
It is difficult to see Britain and Argentina fighting again on the Falklands / Malvinas.

[eggheadbanga]

Gibraltar? That place is just a safe heaven for smuglers, tax evaders and all sort of unsavory people. Most of which, incidentaly, live on the Spanish side due to land limits, limits they have not ceased to expand illegaly on spanish ground (like the airport they do not want to share). Thats the only real reason for them being so faithful to the Queen as they know as soon as their status would change they would have to revert to being just one more little shitty vilage on the southern coast.
I would channel all refuse waters from the surounding regions to dump right into their harbor along with setting up most of the petrochemical plants and fart smelling paper plants just across the line. The stupidity of it is staggering. A colony on european metropolitan soil.

Precisely. We in Britain always have a good laugh every time Gibraltarians are heard mouthing off about how they want to be British, and put forward spokesmen with Spanish surnames. As far as I can tell, it's the natives who are causing the biggest spanner in the works over British-Spanish negotiations as to what to do with this unnecessary anomaly.

[eggheadbanga]

Waste of taxpayers money - there was a time when the tax payer was very glad to have the loyalty of the people of Gibraltar.
No Gib , no victory in North Africa.
Call me old fashioned but friendships should not be as disposable as some politicians would like them to be.

Sure, Gibraltar was very handy in the 1940s, along with Malta (independent)l, Cyprus (independent/divided but still with British sovereign bases), all part of the island chain of communications to Suez. And maybe it was even worthwhile during the Franco years, and through to the end of the Cold War.

But now...? I'm not even sure whether one can call the Gibraltarians expats.

If the Falklands had been populated by the same ethnic mix as Gibraltar, Britain would have signed it over to Argentina long before '82.

[007]

Call me old fashioned but friendships should not be as disposable as some politicians would like them to be.

I agree wholeheartedly with you, Cerberus.

Ebusitanus, what do you have against smugglers, tax evaders and unsavoury people?

[cerberus]

Some navy lads borrow " Don't Cry for me Argentina" and put their own words to it.
Part of it ran like this.
" Don't cry for me Argentina,
The Truth is we will defeat you,
With our Sea harrier ,
We'll sink your carrier



Last lines I can't recall.

Just when I saw Peron's name mentioned this came to mind.
I read his "Campaign In Russia" which didn't make a lasting impression.

The unjust war of the Aliies in WW2 , you no doubt put quite a store in WW2 as told by Leon Degrelle.