Referendum in Montenegro: Montenegro breaks up union with Serbia

[Banat]

22:00

By the first preliminary results, 56.3% voted for secession.

Shouldn't they be proven dramatically wrong, Serbia and Montenegro shall from now on be two separate states.

[Jebivjetar]

So, what's next? Kosovo?

[Banat]

Conference of the pro-union block:

The president of the pro-union block, Predrag Bulatovic, claims that actually the pro-unionists are winning.

Fireworks and mass celebrations of independentists in the streets of Podgorica.

[Banat]

22:50, CEMI

The first preliminary results now corrected to 55.4%, and probably won't go any lower than that.

55% was the required minimum.

[Zrinski]

It seems to me like Bulatovic is in denial. I just hope it doesn't happen something bad. It would be bad for a tourist season for us here in Croatia. :D

[Jimbo Gomez]

Good for Montenegro.

[Watzy]

<Post edited out. --Banat>

[Banat]

I kindly appeal to all Croatian members to refrain from posting in this thread for the sole purpose of gloating and celebrating.

Your personal opinion on this matter is more than clear and it's kind of tasteless to spam Serbian section with anti-Serbian agenda. Plus, I don't need an another flame festival.

[Jimbo Gomez]

I support all independance movements from civilized nations, so my opinion on this is clear.

[Banat]

The last results by CEMI:

Montenegro wins its independence with 55.1% votes.

[Banat]

I support all independance movements from civilized nations, so my opinion on this is clear.

Montenegrins didn't vote their national independence: all Motenegro residents won the independence for their multinational state, which is different. Albanians and Muslims already made clear their autonomy desires, since their percentage in total population highly increased with the break-up of the union.

Ethnical structure of Montenegro:
75% Montenegrins (app. 40% of which declare as Serbs)
12% Muslims
5% Albanians
1% Croats

All national Albanian, Muslim and Croatian organisations have strongly supported independentists.

The tight victory is won by minority votes. The same as if, say, Bavaria won its own secession by a tight result won thanks to Muslim minority votes.

[Slavic Enforcer]

The last results by CEMI:

Montenegro wins its independence with 55.1% votes.

It seems Montenegro is proverbially divided in this question.

[Zeus]

Serbs have been kicked out of their village and lands since the first muslim invasion, there has been forced conversion, they were the one liberating themselves alone from the nazi during the WW2, they are a rude people, unlike us spoiled westernern. I think they will be gloating when Belgium, UK and Holland will fall under muslim laws and charias in 2050 while these countries supported muslims during balkans war.

[Banat]

Final CEMI preliminar results for tonight:

55.5% YES
45.5% NO (Edit: Actually, it's 44.5%: 55.5+45.5=101, thanks Stan :p)

The results by municipalities:

Montenegrin majority municipalities: more-less 50-50 ratio
Muslim majority municipalities (Albanian and Muslim/Bosniak): 70-85% 'Yes'

Preliminary results published by the two blocks:
Independentist head-quarters: 55.8% 'Yes'
Unionist head-quarters: 54% 'Yes'

Note: 1% equals 4,200 votes.

[Watzy]

Serbs have been kicked out of their village and lands since the first muslim invasion, there has been forced conversion, they were the one liberating themselves alone from the nazi during the WW2,
So? Its the Serbian problem not yours...

I think they will be gloating when Belgium, UK and Holland will fall under muslim laws and charias in 2050 while these countries supported muslims during balkans war.
It would be most ungrateful since it was under a threshold set by EU that 55% must vote in favor of independence in order for Montenegro to split from Serbia. EU gave 5% advantage to the Serb side - and not to the pro-independence Montenegrin, Albanian, Muslim and Croatian side.

@Banat

Dont delete this post, because its not about celebrating freedom of our new/old neighbors, or gloating over another Serbian defeat...there will be enough time for that in Phora Croatia. :)

:beerchug:

[Watzy]

75% Montenegrins (app. 40% of which declare as Serbs)

I wonder in which percentage shall the children of these Montenegrins declare themselves as Serbs after they grow up in the independent Montenego and after their parents baptize them in the autocephalous MOC.

[Zeus]

So? Its the Serbian problem not yours...

I'm part serb so I feel concerned by what happen over there, I don't preach tensions between serbs and croats anymore, I did not endorse Milosevic when he invaded and killed many croats but what they've done to bosnians and albanian muslims was nothing more than retaking their land. I'd like to see unity between serbs and croats nowadays, you have a common ennemy, the muslims, I know it's hard to forget what happened in the past but let's give it a try.

[Lenny]

I support all independance movements from civilized nations, so my opinion on this is clear.You strongly support Balkanization of nations (even in the that term's namesake) and despicable terrorist crackpot fanatics and their "Independence movements" like ETA, IRA, KLA? Hmm...

:box:

[Jimbo Gomez]

I do not support the terrorist tactics they employ, but I support the desire for independance nonentheless. There's no contradiction there Lenny.

[Der Sozialist]

I do not support the terrorist tactics they employ, but I support the desire for independance nonentheless. There's no contradiction there Lenny.


Do you support la Raza’s bid for independance from America (Southwest States)?

[Jimbo Gomez]

Do you support la Raza’s bid for independance from America (Southwest States)?


Nope. They're not civilized, and that claim does not relate to their own soil. I assumed it'd be clear that I meant that the nations who get my support have a legitimate and recognized claim to the land in question, but I guess this wasn't obvious after all.

[Slavic Enforcer]

Twelve more points at the next European Song Contest.

[Ahmadinebobina]

Good for Montenegro.

agreed.
:dance2:

[Watzy]

Nope. They're not civilized, and that claim does not relate to their own soil. I assumed it'd be clear that I meant that the nations who get my support have a legitimate and recognized claim to the land in question, but I guess this wasn't obvious after all.

I find Lenny's and Idiot's 'grief' quite entertaining. Indeed, not many people are happy to see the last nails stabbed into the coffin of the Versailles-Jalta order in this 'region'. Nothing goes here as they wanted. :)

The funny thing is that the Montenegrin state was on the side of the West, but 1918. the West sold them anyway in order to reward Serbian appetites. Ironically, Montenegro as a sovereign member of the victorious club ended up in the same potage along with Croats who fought for the Central Powers.

[Der Sozialist]

find Lenny's and Idiot's 'grief' quite entertaining.

No ‘grief’ here—just testing the implications of Charles Martel’s stated ideology.

[Jimbo Gomez]

I don't think he wanted to grief me.

[WFHermans]

History of the period before 1914 shows us that the way to success for Montenegro is to be a neutral state like Switzerland. It should cooperate with Serbia when it's to its advantage, but never allow itself to be shackled to it.

In 1914 Montegro supported the allies, and the jews, Americans, British, French and Yugoslavians thanked Montenegro by destroying it.

[Felix the Cat]

Neutrality (aka. non-alignment) is a major cause of Yugoslavia's problems

"Neutrality" is a polite way of saying "piss off everybody equally"

[dimitrije]

agreed.
:dance2:
I did not expect from you some thing like this my friend, ! Do you realize that you on this way support Albanian Islamic terrorists
I think that most of you don’t understand real situation, on this referendum did not win montenegrian people, Albanians won this time\
Just look how they celebrate
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/2769/10ly.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[WFHermans]

Like Switzerland, Montenegro did from time to time before 1914 join the winner, when it was clear without any doubt who that was going to be.

Never pick a fight with someone stronger than you. Serbia did that during the last 100 years three times already.

[Slavic Enforcer]

Population: 621.000 (2004)

The capitol city of Croatia - Zagreb - has more inhabitants..

[WFHermans]

Liechtenstein — Population: 33,717

Another highly succesful neutral country that stayed out of wars.

[dimitrije]

Never pick a fight with someone stronger than you. Serbia did that during the last 100 years three times already.
Very wrong my friend they pick us, we had no options.
Serbia is between east and west of Europe, between islam and Vatican, we are in the middle of every situation and that is real reason of wars in Serbia

[Slavic Enforcer]

Liechtenstein — Population: 33,717

Another highly succesful neutral country that stayed out of wars.

First of all, Liechtenstein is not on the Balkans (no Albos there, you know).

Second, do you think they (Liechtenstein) would have a chance if any of their neighbours attacks them?

[WFHermans]

It's a pity the Serb government didn't allow the Austrians in search for the murderers of archduke Franz Ferdinand in 1914. Then there would not have been a war.

Serbia could have negotiated with Austria to get the Serbian part of Bosnia and have access to the sea.

Imagine wordwar 1 to have been avoided. Europe would control the world and we would have a base on Mars by now.

[dimitrije]

It's a pity the Serb government didn't allow the Austrians in search for the murderers of archduke Franz Ferdinand in 1914. Then there would not have been a war.

Serbia could have negotiated with Austria to get the Serbian part of Bosnia and have access to the sea.

Imagine wordwar 1 to have been avoided. Europe would control the world and we would have a base on Mars by now.Killing of archduke was not real reason for war, that is only story for ordinary people some thing like –Iraqi weapons of mas destruction

[Slavic Enforcer]

It's a pity the Serb government didn't allow the Austrians in search for the murderers of archduke Franz Ferdinand in 1914. Then there would not have been a war.


Yeah, right. And pigs can fly..

[WFHermans]

Killing of archduke was not real reason for war, that is only story for ordinary people some thing like –Iraqi weapons of mas destruction
That is correct, but not allowing Austria to search for the killers in Serbia was.

[Slavic Enforcer]

That is correct, but not allowing Austria to search for the killers in Serbia was.

You mean, you would have allowed them to "search" in your country? :nuts:

[Watzy]

Serbia could have negotiated with Austria to get the Serbian part of Bosnia and have access to the sea.

It would make as much sense as proposing Iraqis to negotiate with US to get Alaska, or the access to the Pacific. Austria was nominally an empire and Serbia recently established, backward, exotic little country, dangerous only if supported by Britain and Russia. Even Rwanda can become a factor as dangerous as ww1 Serbia if Russia, China and Europe would have stood up as firmly for Rwanda as France, Britain, Russia and US had stood up for ww1 Serbia.

[Fade the Butcher]

Where is AWAR? I'm confused. Is he a Serb or Montenegro?

[Ravenheart]

Where is AWAR? I'm confused. Is he a Serb or Montenegro?

There are many ethnic Serbs in Montenegro - I think he is one of them.

[WFHermans]

Until about 1900 Serbia and Austria-Hungary were allies. Both had fought against Turkey.

Bosnia was occupied by Austria-Hungary after 1878, but not annexed. There wouldn't have been a problem if Bosnia wouldn't have been divided with the ethnic Serb part going to Serbia and the rest to Austria-Hungary if Serbia and Austria-Hungary would have been allies.

Unfortunately, Serb terrorists first murdered their own king and his wife, then they murdered the Austrian emperor-to-be and his wife. The pro-zionist Russian czar cheered when foreign monarchs and their completely innocent wives were assassinated and attacked Austria for daring to protest the murders. Montenegro's pro-zionist prince also declared war on Austria and was rewarded by zionists Churchill, Wilson, Clemenceau by losing its freedom.

Woodrow Wilson, President of the USA 1913-22, in his message, which contains the means for Peace, delivered 8/1/1918 in Congress, his 11 points, solemnly proclaimed and all the Great Powers ratified:

Rumania, Serbia and Montenegro must be restored. Relations between the Balkan states must be settled in a friendly way, along paths which have been historically decreed to them. To these different states will be given international guarantees, which will secure political and economical independence, as also the whole integrity of their territory.

[Slavic Enforcer]

And Hitler wanted only peace.
:nopity:

[WFHermans]

And Hitler wanted only peace.
:nopity:
If you say so.

But that has nothing to do with this thread.

[Slavic Enforcer]

If you say so.

But that has nothing to do with this thread.

But the murder of Franz Ferdinand has.. :nuts:

[WFHermans]

Correct.

http://www.montenegro.org

[WFHermans]

Congratulations to Serbia for having their own state also. What happens to Yugoslavia now?

[Slavic Enforcer]

What happens to Yugoslavia now?

Is today stupid-questions-day in the Netherlands?

[Ravenheart]

Congratulations to Serbia for having their own state also. What happens to Yugoslavia now?

Uh, it obviously no longer exists. It has completely disintegrated in a number of separate states.

[Watzy]

Is today stupid-questions-day in the Netherlands?

Actually it is one extremely bright question. :)

Now we can say the process of disintegration of Yugoslavia is completed - at least on the level of the federal republics.

Not a very good day for few Yugoslav dinosaurs still walking amongst us. :D

[Watzy]

Congratulations to Serbia for having their own state also.
And indeed, many Serbians are content and some are even celebrating, despite of the sourness of the politicians and Orthodox clergy.

[Slavic Enforcer]

Actually it is one extremely bright question. :)

By your intellectual standards - for sure.

Now we can say the process of disintegration of Yugoslavia is completed - at least on the level of the federal republics.

Not a very good day for few Yugoslav dinosaurs still walking amongst us. :D

There's no bigger Yugoslav dinosaur on this board than you.

It seems you can't live without Yugoslavia: Yugoslavia this, Yugoslavia that, bla-bla-bla..

:nuts:

[Watzy]

By your intellectual standards - for sure.

There's nothing intellectual about state-enforced bastardization of blood and hybridism of identity. :nuts:

There's no bigger Yugoslav dinosaur on this board than you.

It seems you can't live without Yugoslavia: Yugoslavia this, Yugoslavia that, bla-bla-bla..

If so, why do you seem to be the only one around emotionally disturbed by this? :D ;)

[Slavic Enforcer]

If so, why do you seem to be the only one around emotionally disturbed by this?

Well, your ambiguously provocations and insinuations are mostly directed at me. Maybe that's the reason.

By the way, I may be of mixed ancestry but at least I don't talk Hungarian at home.

[Waurms]

Iskreno mi je žao što će se Crna Gora odvojiti od Srbije.








:D

[Watzy]

Well, your ambiguously provocations and insinuations are mostly directed at me. Maybe that's the reason.

You're suffering from a serious inferiority complex mate. I'm talking about Yugoslavia and your disturbing Titoist retromania, while you're thinking only about your levantine ancestors. Get a grip on your self will you!? :nuts:

By the way, I may be of mixed ancestry but at least I don't talk Hungarian at home.

Sure, just like Zrinski's and Erdody's did. Along with Latin and German it was the second language of our knights! :strong:

Hogy a fasz üsse fel a szádat, Slavic Wolf!! :whip: :D

[VAMPIR]

The last results by CEMI:

Montenegro wins its independence with 55.1% votes.
Wrong. Latest and final: 55.58% FOR INDEPENDENCE!
We've said what we've had to say!!!:nopity:

[VAMPIR]

I wonder in which percentage shall the children of these Montenegrins declare themselves as Serbs after they grow up in the independent Montenego and after their parents baptize them in the autocephalous MOC.
Well, I can answer that question. They will be returned to their roots. Montenegrians (I am one, and I'm proud) first time declared themselves as Serbs after 1918, precisly, after Serbian ocupation of sovereign state of Montenegro. Then, youth sold their own state (many of them were students in Belgrade), but now youth returned OWN STATE! Another circle of justice! :thanks: :nopity: :D

[VAMPIR]

You strongly support Balkanization of nations (even in the that term's namesake) and despicable terrorist crackpot fanatics and their "Independence movements" like ETA, IRA, KLA? Hmm...

:box:
Dear Lenny, just learn about something if u want to talk about it. Montenegro is (God :thanks: ) the oldest Balkanian state, wich felt under Otoman empire 1489, and since 1552 (Niksic resistance boom:D ) never lost independence, till 1918, when Montenegro was ocupied by Serbian forces. You have a lot of historical stuff on the net to provide what I've said.:dance2:

[The Serb]

Lenny please pay no attention to this shiptar troll 'Cernobog', Montenegrins are Serbs and only Serbs.

History of Montenegro (http://www.njegos.org/siteindex/ethnic.htm)

The Serbian Origin of the Montenegrins (http://www.rastko.org.yu/rastko-cg/povijest/vlahovic.html)

Unfortunately the criminal gangster and traitor Djukanovic with his American backed anti Serb coalition of shiptars, croats, muslims, gypsies, Bolsheviks and brainwashed liberals managed to fix this result through intimidation,threats,media control and outright theft at the ballot box. Montenegrins from Serbia were prevented from voting while shiptars from Kosovo/Albania and illegal immigrants were given the right, Bosnian muslims were also bussed in and deceased persons were 'voting' for independence. Montenegrins in favour of union with Serbia were harassed and many lost their jobs simply for stating that they will vote for the union.
A climate of fear and intimidation led to what we have now which is another albanian 'state' in the Balkans.

Shiptar map of greater Albania

http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/1324/240pxethnicalbania6by.jpg

[The Serb]

Some well known Montenegrin patriots,

Zeljko Raznjatovic Arkan

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9904/06/nato.attack.01/link.arkan.jpg

Radovan Karadzic

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/07/10/wbkaradzicfinalcut_narrowweb__200x270.jpg

Slobodan Milosevic

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/images/europe/yugoslavia/milosevic.jpg

[dimitrije]

This is the list of financial supporters of Montenegrin church, just look there is non Serb or Montenegrin just Albanian scum, brothers of cernobog
Ismet Redjovic---------------US $ 100.00

Vasko Kocovic----------------US 10000

Adzija Metanovic--------------- US 2000

Alil Pekovic--------------------- US 2000

Ruzdija Karastanovic----------- US 10000

Zeko Duskic---------------------US 6000

Becir Cubic----------------------US 6000

Becir Vulic-----------------------US 6000

Fadil Redzovic------------------US 15000

Marija Kott---------------------Can. 2000

all of them are from Canada

@cernobog soon or later you will realize who are Albanians and why they voted for independence but then it will be maybe late for you and your family
This is the message for you from adem demaci leader of Albanians
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7518/demaci3zz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Watzy]

Do you realize that you on this way support Albanian Islamic terrorists

The Albanians of Montenegro are Catholics.:rolleyes: ;)

'Antivari' (since 1878 a part of the principality of Montenegro (q.v.); since 1886, without suffragans, and separated from Scutari, with which it had been united in 1867 on terms of equality)

http://www.answers.com/topic/albanian-catholicism

[dimitrije]

The Albanians of Montenegro are Catholics.:rolleyes: ;)



http://www.answers.com/topic/albanian-catholicismNo only part of them ,vast majority are muslims, I have been several times in Ulcinj and I saw a lot of mosques.

[Watzy]

No only part of them ,vast majority are muslims, I have been several times in Ulcinj and I saw a lot of mosques.

You are confusing Montenegrin Albanians with Slavic Muslims.

Ethnical structure of Montenegro:
75% Montenegrins (app. 40% of which declare as Serbs)
12% Muslims
5% Albanians
1% Croats

http://thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=90334&postcount=11

Albanians: 31,163 (5.03%)
Slavic Muslims: 24,625 (3.97%)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegro

About 223,500 belong to the Greek Orthodox Church; 12,900 are Catholics (mostly Albanians)and about 14,000 are Mohammedans.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10529c.htm

[dimitrije]

Zvaci you don’t know situation like me because every summer I am in Serbian Montenegro in city of Bar. After war on Kosovo large number of shiptars from Kosovo came in Montenegro.
p.s please no more jewish wikipedia every one can write there

[6(sic)6]

Lenny please pay no attention to this shiptar troll 'Cernobog', Montenegrins are Serbs and only Serbs.

History of Montenegro (http://www.njegos.org/siteindex/ethnic.htm)

The Serbian Origin of the Montenegrins (http://www.rastko.org.yu/rastko-cg/povijest/vlahovic.html)

Unfortunately the criminal gangster and traitor Djukanovic with his American backed anti Serb coalition of shiptars, croats, muslims, gypsies, Bolsheviks and brainwashed liberals managed to fix this result through intimidation,threats,media control and outright theft at the ballot box. Montenegrins from Serbia were prevented from voting while shiptars from Kosovo/Albania and illegal immigrants were given the right, Bosnian muslims were also bussed in and deceased persons were 'voting' for independence. Montenegrins in favour of union with Serbia were harassed and many lost their jobs simply for stating that they will vote for the union.
A climate of fear and intimidation led to what we have now which is another albanian 'state' in the Balkans.

Shiptar map of greater Albania

http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/1324/240pxethnicalbania6by.jpg
LOL...
Albanians hate gypsies (gypsies are hated by serbs,croats and albos don't say anything else beacuse that is a fact)!

Greater Albanian? If it wasen't for Hitlers dead there would be no Serbia today. Those who rule in the Balkans are more or less US/EU.
Fun to see that there are serbian "nutzis" or selfhaters like I call them...:rofl:

[Watzy]

Zvaci you don’t know situation like me because every summer I am in Serbian Montenegro in city of Bar. After war on Kosovo large number of shiptars from Kosovo came in Montenegro.

Your tourist observations are irrelevant Dimitrije. You failed to present us any source proving the confession of Montenegrin Albanians is Muslim.

p.s please no more jewish wikipedia every one can write there

Is Banat also Jewish? :rofl: I quoted 4 different sources (including Banats Serbo-Chetnik), while you quoted none. Albanians of Montenegro are Catholics according to any data available. Face it Serb! :hump:

[VAMPIR]

Me and 62% of Montenegro people call us Montenegrins. Is that proof strong enough that MONTENEGRINS REALLY EXIST, and that we are normal people, but not exotic elves from serbian fairy tales? :nopity: :dance2:

[dimitrije]

Me and 62% of Montenegro people call us Montenegrins. Is that proof strong enough that MONTENEGRINS REALLY EXIST, and that we are normal people, but not exotic elves from serbian fairy tales? :nopity: :dance2:
I am sorry but one they you will realize why Albanians supported you but then it will be late for you and yours 62% of fools.

cernobog are you from cetinje ?

[Defensor Fidei]

Me and 62% of Montenegro people call us Montenegrins. Is that proof strong enough that MONTENEGRINS REALLY EXIST, and that we are normal people, but not exotic elves from serbian fairy tales?

Živila nezavisna CRNA GORA !!!

Neznam zašto se Srbi bune, sada je i srbija napokon nezavisna.

[dimitrije]

Živila nezavisna CRNA GORA !!!Hoces li da objasnis zbog cega je ti podrzavas?

Neznam zašto se Srbi bune, sada je i srbija napokon nezavisna.
Bunimo se zbog onih ljudi koje ce sada siptari ubijati,znajuci njih u roku od par godina pocece da ubijaju dece u i starce,bunimo se zbog toga sto je to srpska zemlja pa i njihovoj himni kazu ,,na lovecenu spava najmudrija srpska glava'' budale slave svoj kraj na tru kralja Nikole koji se izjasnjavao kao srbin.
Samo ne znam sta ce jesti posto pokusavaju da oteraju srbe ako im mi ne dodjemo na more nece im niko doci,da ne pricam kakva im je poljoprivreda

[Waurms]

Hoces li da objasnis zbog cega je ti podrzavas?


Bunimo se zbog onih ljudi koje ce sada siptari ubijati,znajuci njih u roku od par godina pocece da ubijaju dece u i starce,bunimo se zbog toga sto je to srpska zemlja pa i njihovoj himni kazu ,,na lovecenu spava najmudrija srpska glava'' budale slave svoj kraj na tru kralja Nikole koji se izjasnjavao kao srbin.
Samo ne znam sta ce jesti posto pokusavaju da oteraju srbe ako im mi ne dodjemo na more nece im niko doci,da ne pricam kakva im je poljoprivreda
Dimitrije,kako si?

[dimitrije]

@Cernobog smrade sve u zivotu mozes da promenis ali poreklo ne!!
vidi sta je rekao veliki Njegos Iliji Garasaninu verovatno ces se prepoznati u ovim mudrim recima

-Илији Гарашанину Његош пише из Трста 11.новембра. 1850г:
" Будите спокојни поштени и драги Србине,и немојте никада помислити а толи вјеровати да ће владика црногорски бити солчен којекаквих вјетрењачах, а толи солчен партије која против мене и цијелога Српства дејствује.Са стране црногорске будите сасвим мирни.Ми к Вама друго не гајимо до чисте братске љубави и искрености.Највиши је аманет и светиња наша послије имена Душанова је име КАРАЂОРЂЕВО.Ко је овоме имену противник,тај НИЈЕ СРБИН,но губави изрод српски..."
Izrode vidi sta rece kralj Nikola -neka mu je vecna slava
КРАЉ НИКОЛА
О односима са Србијом,за вријеме књаза Михаила,краљ Никола пише:
"За слогу и добро српско,предложим изасланику Србије да склопимо савез и уговор између двије књажевине у циљу да се пође ка ОСЛОБОЂЕЊУ И УЈЕДИЊЕЊУ ЦИЈЕЛОГА СРПСТВА..."


A evo i milovog pretka,obavezno procitaj bednice
МАРКО ЂУКАНОВИЋ
(предсједник црногорске народне скупштине) рекао је предлажући проглашење књаза Николе за краља 1910г:
"...Зна се да је прва СРПСКА држава Светога Краља Владимира никла на простору данашње Црне Горе.Зна се да је Зета била колијевка Немањића и остала мила њихова ђедовина,којима се истицала између осталих страна пространога Душанова царства,зна се пошто је српско пропануло царство да се зетски господар Иван Црнојевић није покорио злој судбини осталога српскога народа,него се склонио у ове зетске планине и основао Црну Гору која је вјековима водила јуначку борбу да сачува ову посљедњу стопу СРПСКЕ ЗЕМЉЕ,и зна се да ха њој сачувала до данашњих дана и последњу искру СРПСКЕ слободе и независности..."
cernobog nulo jedna bedna koja kaze da nije srbin samo zato sto je to cuo na televiziji evo ti malo realnih istorijskih podataka
Двоглавог орла Немањића, симбола Српскога Царства, прихватили су Црнојевићи, господари Зете, посљедње слободне српске средњовјековне државе, која је под Турке пала 1499. године.

setih se one pesme stare crnogorske
TADA ZAPEVA KRALJ NIKOLA
SJEDNICU SRPSKE ZEMLJE KRUNOM DUSANA
ODBRANICU SRPSKI NAROD SABLJOM MILOSA
E MOJ CERNOBOZE umesto da budemo braca ka nasi stari i moji su rodom iz crne nam gore pre nego sto odose na kosovo polje ti poverova izdajnicima
znas li da je direktor tvcg jevrej ?
sta ce biti kada krenu siptari-videces kada ti majka zakuka sta sam govorio

[Defensor Fidei]

Hoces li da objasnis zbog cega je ti podrzavas?

Crnogorci imaju pravo na svoju državu, a uostalom Crnogorce se uvijek smatralo zasebnim od Srba. Da im je bilo dobro u zajednici sa Srbijom nebi se ni htjeli osamostalit. Srbi su u Crnoj Gori većinom doseljenici, Herceg Novi je pun Srba iz Bosne i Hrvatske, a i oni Srbi koji su već dulje vremena u Crnoj Gori su došli kao izbjeglice od Turaka.

bunimo se zbog toga sto je to srpska zemlja pa i njihovoj himni kazu ,,na lovecenu spava najmudrija srpska glava'' budale slave svoj kraj na tru kralja Nikole koji se izjasnjavao kao srbin.

Vi nikako da se odreknete velikosrpske politike i mitova o "srpskim zemljama" Takva politika će pokopat Srbiju za sva vremena. Crna Gora je nekad možda bila srpska ali Crnogorci danas žele nezavisnu državu i imat će ju bez obzira na vaše fantazije. Nekad je postojala hrvatska država na području Poljske ali to ne znači da je Poljska hrvatska zemlja.


Samo ne znam sta ce jesti posto pokusavaju da oteraju srbe ako im mi ne dodjemo na more nece im niko doci,da ne pricam kakva im je poljoprivreda.


Koliko ja znam prosječna plaća u Crnoj Gori je veća od prosječne plaće u Srbiji. Više će izgubit Srbija jer ostaje bez izlaza na more.

[dimitrije]

Crnogorci imaju pravo na svoju državu, a uostalom Crnogorce se uvijek smatralo zasebnim od Srba. Da im je bilo dobro u zajednici sa Srbijom nebi se ni htjeli osamostalit. Srbi su u Crnoj Gori većinom doseljenici, Herceg Novi je pun Srba iz Bosne i Hrvatske, a i oni Srbi koji su već dulje vremena u Crnoj Gori su došli kao izbjeglice od Turaka.
Ni to nije istina vecina crnogoraca smatra sebe za srbina i nije glasalo za zajednicku drzavu vec su hteli biti srpska pokrajina sto im je i mesto.Pobedlili su zahvaljuci albanicama koji su glasali i mrtvi svaki siptar je slikao svoj listic telefonom sta mislis zasto.A da negovorim o kupovini licnih karata i pretnjama otkazima i sl.


Vi nikako da se odreknete velikosrpske politike i mitova o "srpskim zemljama" Takva politika će pokopat Srbiju za sva vremena. Crna Gora je nekad možda bila srpska ali Crnogorci danas žele nezavisnu državu i imat će ju bez obzira na vaše fantazije. Nije tacno pogledaj moj prosli post,to je srpska zemlja bila do WW2 tj. tita, stric mila djukanovica je bio cetnicki komadant

Nekad je postojala hrvatska država na području Poljske ali to ne znači da je Poljska hrvatska zemlja. vrlo malo znam o tome jer imas neko link da pogledam ili text pa ga postavi kao temu ovde


Koliko ja znam prosječna plaća u Crnoj Gori je veća od prosječne plaće u Srbiji. Više će izgubit Srbija jer ostaje bez izlaza na more.Taj izlaz nam vise ne znaci jer se ratovi ne vode kao ranije a i sto se tice ekonomije ni ona se sada ne odvija kao nekada taj izlaz odgovara samo siptarima i kriminalcima da svercuju

[Waurms]

moji su rodom iz crne nam gore pre nego sto odose na kosovo polje


Dimitrije,gde su ti sada preci brata tvog čukundede koji je prešao na katoličku vjeru i postao Hrvat.

[dimitrije]

Dimitrije,gde su ti sada preci brata tvog čukundede koji je prešao na katoličku vjeru i postao Hrvat.Verovatno mrtvi ne verujem da zive kao Kristifor Lambert i filmu ,,Gorstak'':rofl:
Warums napisi nekada nesto sto je vezano za temu ili makar nesto priblizno!!

[Defensor Fidei]

Crnogorci, kojih je bilo podosta u 19. vijeku u Carigradu posjetio je jedan dopisnik "Srbobrana" kako bi o njima napisao izvještaj. On ih pozdravi - "Dobro veče braćo Srbi!" - Oni mu složno odgovoriše -"Nijesmo mi Srbi, prijatelju!" - "Nego?" - uzvrati začuđeno dopisnik. - "Mi smo Crnogorci." - Dopisnik je pokušao drugačije kazati, pa reče - "A kojim jezikom govorite? Valjda srpskim?" - "Ne" - odgovore mu svi. - "Nego?" - "Mi govorimo hrvatskim jezikom, ali smo Crnogorci." - Opet upita dopisnik - "Kako se zove ovdje vaš poglavica" - Oni odgovore "Hrvat-baša" .

Vego Marko, "Povijest Humske zemlje (Hercegovine)", I. dio, tiskara Dragutin Spuller, Samobor 1937.

[Waurms]

Verovatno mrtvi ne verujem da zive kao Kristifor Lambert i filmu ,,Gorstak'':rofl:
Warums napisi nekada nesto sto je vezano za temu ili makar nesto priblizno!!
Dimitrije,opet si neuredan.Nisi se ni obrijao ni podašišao.

[Defensor Fidei]

Ni to nije istina vecina crnogoraca smatra sebe za srbina

Montenegrins: 43%
Serbs: 32%
Bosniaks: 8%
Albanians: 5%
Croats: 1%
Others: 11%



vrlo malo znam o tome jer imas neko link da pogledam ili text pa ga postavi kao temu ovde


http://www.hr/darko/gif/chrobat.jpg

Constantine Porphyrogenitus (905-959), a Byzantine emperor and writer, mentions the state bearing the name of White Croatia. His description shows that it occupied a wide region around its capital Krakow, in parts of Bohemia, Slovakia, and Poland. The state disappeared in 999. St. Adalbert (Vojtech, 10th century) was a descendant of the White Croats, son of the White-Croatian duke Slavnik. He was spreading Christianity, education and culture, and to this end founded the benedictine monastery in Brevnov in 993. Also St. Ivan Hrvat, who died in Tetin in Bohemia in 910, was a son of White-Croatian King Gostumil. It is interesting to add that according to some American documents from the beginning of this century there were about 100,000 immigrants to the USA born around Krakow (Poland) who declared themselves to be Bielo-Chorvats, i.e. White Croats by nationality. See US Senate-Reports on the Immigration commission, Dictionary of races or peoples, Washington DC, 1911, p. 40, 43, 105.


Even today the descendants of the White Croats live in Bohemia. The surname Charvat is still rather widespread there. For example a director of the National Theatre Opera in Prague in 1990's was Mr Premysl Charvat. An outstanding person in part of Prague called Nove Mesto was Jan Charvat (+1424). In the same quarter of Prague there is a street called Charvatska street even today. Villages in Bohemia like Harvaci, Harvatska gorica reveal its early Croatian inhabitants.

The Slavnik family had its coins with inscription Mulin Civitas, issued by Duke Sobjeslav (?-1004), the oldest son of Slavnik. This confirms that the fortress of Mulin near Kutna Hora (west of Prague in Bohemia) was a part of their territory. It is assumed that the Slavnik's were the leading tribe of the Croats in the 10th century in that region. Their main seat was in the town of Libica, west of Prague (near Kutna Hora). Thus we had two parallel Croatian states in that period: White Croatia in Central Europe and Dalmatian-Panonian Croatia near the Adriatic sea.
In 995, when White Croatian troops led by Sobjeslav were defending their Dukedom from pagan tribes, White Croatia was suddenly attacked by the Czech duke Premysl, destroying their capital Libice and killing most of the Croatian population. There are some conjectures that several noble families in Poland (like Paluk's) are descendants of White Croats, as well as the family of Rozomberk (which seems to be related to the town of Ruzomberok in Slovakia). Sobjeslav was killed in 1004 on a bridge over Vltava river in Prague, when Polish troops tried to occupy the city.
See Ivica Sumic: U potrazi za "Hrvatskom Atlantidom" (In the quest of "Croatian Atlantida"), Stecak, Sarajevo, No 64, 1999.

[Watzy]

Živila nezavisna CRNA GORA !!!

Neznam zašto se Srbi bune, sada je i srbija napokon nezavisna.

It seems to me the Serbs are frustrated by the fact Montenegrins are the 4. Christian Slavic nation of ex-Yugoslavia walking away from them. The majority of Christian Slavs of ex-Yugoslavia refused to live under Belgrade, they refused to be considered as Serbs! More the Serbs shall negate Montenegrin ethnicity as separate - more the Montenegrins shall hate them.

http://www.index.hr/clanak.aspx?id=317495

This song of the Montenegrin youth may not be a nice one, but it illustrates the animosity Serbs brought upon their heads in Montenegro: "Oprosti mi draga mati, došlo vrijeme Srbe klati" (Forgive me dear mother, it's time to butcher the Serbs).

[6(sic)6]

It seems to me the Serbs are frustrated by the fact Montenegrins are the 4. Christian Slavic nation of ex-Yugoslavia walking away from them. The majority of Christian Slavs of ex-Yugoslavia refused to live under Belgrade, they refused to be considered as Serbs! More the Serbs shall negate Montenegrin ethnicity as separate - more the Montenegrins shall hate them.

http://www.index.hr/clanak.aspx?id=317495

This song of the Montenegrin youth may not be a nice one, but it illustrates the animosity Serbs brought upon their heads in Montenegro: "Oprosti mi draga mati, došlo vrijeme Srbe klati" (Forgive me dear mother, it's time to butcher the Serbs).
Croatia,Bosnia,Albania and also Montenegro have serbs as their common enemy.
Thx to Milosevic and his jewish greed Serbia got bombed all the way to Rwanda.
Still there are serbs that sees Slobodan pro commie and murder as an "hero".
We shall not even speak about the criminal "Arkan"..
He was wanted in Sweden for bankrobbery.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0003/05/arkan.html

[Watzy]

...Milosevic and his jewish greed...

http://thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=92878&postcount=4

[dimitrije]

Чернобог бивши брате оли да се изјасниш у вези мојих постова на овој теми_

[VAMPIR]

Чернобог бивши брате оли да се изјасниш у вези мојих постова на овој теми_
Apsolutno, Dimitrije. Da nisam puki CPU user (koristim kad moram), mogao bih ti danima objasnjavati razloge svih (nazalost) srpskih poraza kroz cijelu istoriju vase drzave, a od skorije i nacije. Za sada cu se ograniciti samo na kratke odgovore odgovore.
1. Nisam sa Cetinja, vec iz Herceg Novog, a porijeklom sam iz gornje Morace, uskoci.
2. Sto se plemena tice, ona su za mene dio folklora, a nikako "znak raspoznavanja" i dio identiteta, i nemam obicaj da kada odem na starinu da piskim:) po ivicama imanja...
3. Pokusaj da razdvojis pojmove NARODA i NACIJE.
a) NAROD, pojam koji vezemo za krv i porijeklo, je nemoguce upotrijebiti u pozitivne svrhe u dnevnoj politici, a jos gori proizvod dobijes kada ga upotrijebis u ideologijama krvi i tla, jer dobijas SAVRSENU FORMULU ZA FASIZAM. Po tom pitanju Balkan je nerazrjesiva enigma. Mnogo onih koji se danas pisu i osjecaju Hrvatima su porijeklom Srbi, kao i obrnuto. Sta reci za islamizirane Slovene?
Tako, ako je do mog stava vezanog za narod, postoji samo jedan, a to je Juzno-Slovenski.
b) NACIJA je mnogo vise ekonomski i tradicijom (vijekovni zivot lokalnih skupina i plemena) ogranicen pojam. Sto se toga tice, vidim Srpsku, Hrvatsku, Bosnjacku, Makedonsku i Crnogorsku naciju. Slovenci nijesu juzni Sloveni, vec zapadni. Komunizam ih je (radi drzave nam bivse) spakovao u juzne. To se najbolje vidi po jeziku.
4. Srpski nacija mora biti spremna da se prilagodi modernim tokovima. Procitaj "Sukob civilizacija" Semjuela Hantingtona, za pocetak, i izvuci zakljucke. Sta je prioritet, a sta alternativa. Nadam se da hoces, jer je sa tobom uvijek zanimljivo razgovarati. Volio bih i koje konkretno pitanje, rado i argumentovano cu ti odgovoriti.
Veliki pozdrav srpskom bratu Dimitriju, od brata Crnogorca.:)

[VAMPIR]

...obrisi par poruka da bi mogao da primis moju na private...

[Watzy]

Mnogo onih koji se danas pisu i osjecaju Hrvatima su porijeklom Srbi, kao i obrnuto.

Zašto apostrofiraš baš mješanje Hrvata i Srba kad su oni najmanje živjeli u zajedničkoj državi? :confused:

Ne kažem da ta dva naroda nisu imali nikakovih povremene doticaja, ali nebi li bilo logičnije da zaključiš kako su Hrvati imali više dodira s onim narodima s kojima su najduže živjeli u državnim zajednicama, a Srbi pak s onim u kojima su oni živjeli?!

Mislim da jedan Crnogorac koji se zalaže za svoju nezavisnost (ili barem tako tvrdi) nebi trebao bacati Hrvate u isti kofer sa Srbima, dok su njegovi netom i sami digli sidro od Srba i zdimili. :)

Tako, ako je do mog stava vezanog za narod, postoji samo jedan, a to je Juzno-Slovenski.

Taj narod nikad u povijesti nije postojao, a pokušaj da se stvori uništila je hrvatska hrabrost i srpska neproračunatost devedesetih.

Slovenci nijesu juzni Sloveni, vec zapadni. Komunizam ih je (radi drzave nam bivse) spakovao u juzne.

Najbolje je ne spakiravati nikoga tamo gdje ne želi biti spakiran, zar ne? ;)

Nikoga ne treba vezati ni za što jer od okova se najlakše kuju kame, a poslije je onda prekasno kukati i kriviti 'zle fašiste' i 'genocidne Hrvate' - kada se čaša gnjeva prelije...

[The Serb]

Чернобог бивши брате оли да се изјасниш у вези мојих постова на овој теми_

Kakav 'bivsi brat' ovaj smrad je 100% neki ustasa balija ili siptar iz Crne Gore.

[dimitrije]

Is Banat also Jewish? ::It seems to me that you don’t believe as usual, see by your self!!!
http://judicial-inc.biz/wikipedia.htm

[Watzy]

:It seems to me that you don’t believe as usual, see by your self!!!
http://judicial-inc.biz/wikipedia.htm

In that case I fail to notice how the 'Jewish' data differs significantly from the Slavoserb data:

2003 Population Census of Montenegro (http://www.yusurvey.co.yu/products/ys/showSummaryArticle.php?prodId=2023&groupId=4780&PHPSESSID=92dc56e36fab72f12d1c4910750bec3c)

Montenegrins 40.6%, Serbs 30%, Bosniacs and Muslims 13.7%, Albanians 7.1%, Croats 1% and Romanies 1.2%.

Or are you saying the Sarbars are not even capable of conducting the Population Census right? :p

[VAMPIR]

Kakav 'bivsi brat' ovaj smrad je 100% neki ustasa balija ili siptar iz Crne Gore.
Da li je neko cuo za kulturu dijaloga???
Mozda bih i trebao ignorisati ovakve poruke, ali necu. To je najlakse. A za izrazavanje ovakvih stavova postoje manje plemeniti borilacki sportovi. Oni plemeniti imaju pravila i nivo, a ovo... :confused:
Elem, :) , ja sam pravoslavni Crnogorac, vise nego odlicno upucen u svoju istoriju i tradiciju. Crnogorski patriota. Jasno pravim razliku izmedju patriotizma i nacional-sovinizma, aka. ETNOCENTRIZMA. Odatle ovakav moj stav. A raspolozen sam za provjeru uvijek, pa AKO BAS I MORA OVAKO, BEZ KULTURE.
To bi trebao biti dokaz da ne posjedujem, (ili ne prepoznajem, ko ce ga znat!:) ) komplekse nize vrijednosti, i razlicite krize licnosti (morala, identiteta...)
Odgovaram na konkretna pitanja, any time...

[dimitrije]

Odgovaram na konkretna pitanja, any time...Sta mislis o onom mom postu gde sam izneo neke cinjenice iz proslosti?

[VAMPIR]

Zašto apostrofiraš baš mješanje Hrvata i Srba kad su oni najmanje živjeli u zajedničkoj državi? :confused:
Izvini ako sam te bilo cime uvrijedio, ali ste dijelili jedan zivotni prostor, dvije ste najvece juznoslovenske nacije, pa je dolazilo do mijesanja na ovaj ili onaj nacin. To ti potvrdjuje POGOTOVO zapadna Hercegovina. Svi smo toliko slicni da je vjera bila presudan (u pocetku) faktor odredjivanja nacionalne pripadnosti.Ne kažem da ta dva naroda nisu imali nikakovih povremene doticaja, ali nebi li bilo logičnije da zaključiš kako su Hrvati imali više dodira s onim narodima s kojima su najduže živjeli u državnim zajednicama, a Srbi pak s onim u kojima su oni živjeli?!
Upravo to. To i jeste jedan od nacina. Prvo ne iskljucuje drugo.
Mislim da jedan Crnogorac koji se zalaže za svoju nezavisnost (ili barem tako tvrdi) nebi trebao bacati Hrvate u isti kofer sa Srbima, dok su njegovi netom i sami digli sidro od Srba i zdimili. :)
Kao sto sam srecan zbog obnove svoje drzave, srecan sam i zbog obnove nezavisne Srbije, jer ce konacno moci da se posvete svojim problemima (ne malim!) i izadju na pravi evropski put, kao dobar susjed svima. Svi bi trebali to da prizeljkujemo.


Taj narod nikad u povijesti nije postojao, a pokušaj da se stvori uništila je hrvatska hrabrost i srpska neproračunatost devedesetih.
Ja govorim o krvi, a ne o naciji.


Najbolje je ne spakiravati nikoga tamo gdje ne želi biti spakiran, zar ne? ;)
100% je tako.
Nikoga ne treba vezati ni za što jer od okova se najlakše kuju kame, a poslije je onda prekasno kukati i kriviti 'zle fašiste' i 'genocidne Hrvate' - kada se čaša gnjeva prelije...
Svaki narod ima svoje demone. Treba cuvati i graditi svoj identitet na ljubavi prema svom narodu, a ne na mrznji prema drugom. To JE BILA greska svih nas u proslosti, pa je ne treba ponavljati. Mozemo biti dobre komsije, to je dovoljno i odlicno. I koristilo bi svima.:)
Pozdrav!:thanks:

[VAMPIR]

Sta mislis o onom mom postu gde sam izneo neke cinjenice iz proslosti?
Navedi mi tacno na koji mislis, pa cu ti odgovoriti. A sto se tice onog tvog pitanja da li sam ja pjevao "draga mati...", NARAVNO DA NISAM, A NISAM NIKOGA NI CUO. OCITO STE MEDIJSKI PRENEGATIVNO OBAVIJESTENI, CIM VAM LANSIRAJU TAKVE GROZOTE. 500 GODINA BORBE SA TURCIMA, KLANJE NIJESMO PRAKTIKOVALI, (POSJECI NEKOGA U BOJU JE NESTO DRUGO), PA VALJDA NIJESMO TO POZELJELI NI U 21-vom VIJEKU, A POGOTOVO NE PREMA SRBIMA!!!
ZADOVOLJAN???

[dimitrije]

Svaki narod ima svoje demone. Treba cuvati i graditi svoj identitet na ljubavi prema svom narodu, a ne na mrznji prema drugom. To JE BILA greska svih nas u proslosti, pa je ne treba ponavljati. Mozemo biti dobre komsije, to je dovoljno i odlicno. I koristilo bi svima.:)
Pozdrav!:thanks:
Samo se ti zavaravaj,njegov zivot je njegova mrznja.To je programirani biorobot,pogledaj kakve on slike salje-
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/139/img00901yh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[VAMPIR]

Znas li zbog cega sam kao avatar stavio Njegosevu sliku u svestenickoj odori? Znas li sta po pravoslavnom kanonu oznacava bijela pankamilavka i ko je JEDINI danas u SPC nosi?
Znas li odredbe Ustava za Knjazevinu Crnu Goru iz 1905 godine koje se odnose na NARODNOST, JEZIK I DRZAVNU RELIGIJU(tj. vjeru i crkvu)?
Znas li ko je bio Mitrofan ban, a ko Gavrilo Dozic, i kakve veze oni imaju jedan sa drugim?

[dimitrije]

Navedi mi tacno na koji mislis, pa cu ti odgovoriti.
Илији Гарашанину Његош пише из Трста 11.новембра. 1850г:
" Будите спокојни поштени и драги Србине,и немојте никада помислити а толи вјеровати да ће владика црногорски бити солчен којекаквих вјетрењачах, а толи солчен партије која против мене и цијелога Српства дејствује.Са стране црногорске будите сасвим мирни.Ми к Вама друго не гајимо до чисте братске љубави и искрености.Највиши је аманет и светиња наша послије имена Душанова је име КАРАЂОРЂЕВО.Ко је овоме имену противник,тај НИЈЕ СРБИН,но губави изрод српски..


."
Двоглавог орла Немањића, симбола Српскога Царства, прихватили су Црнојевићи, господари Зете, посљедње слободне српске средњовјековне државе, која је под Турке пала 1499. године.


МАРКО ЂУКАНОВИЋ
(предсједник црногорске народне скупштине) рекао је предлажући проглашење књаза Николе за краља 1910г:
"...Зна се да је прва СРПСКА држава Светога Краља Владимира никла на простору данашње Црне Горе.Зна се да је Зета била колијевка Немањића и остала мила њихова ђедовина,којима се истицала између осталих страна пространога Душанова царства,зна се пошто је српско пропануло царство да се зетски господар Иван Црнојевић није покорио злој судбини осталога српскога народа,него се склонио у ове зетске планине и основао Црну Гору која је вјековима водила јуначку борбу да сачува ову посљедњу стопу СРПСКЕ ЗЕМЉЕ,и зна се да ха њој сачувала до данашњих дана и последњу искру СРПСКЕ слободе и независности..."

Молим те ми одговори којим језиком говориш

[VAMPIR]

Pravila jezika ( sintaksa, semantika, fonetika...) su pitanje za lingviste. Medjutim, ime jezika (pogotovo na prostoru Balkana!!!) je pitanje pravne teorije, i spada u elementarna ljudska prava i slobode da svoj jezik nazove svojim imenom, a to je tekovina francuske revolucije!
Najrealnije ime naseg jezika je Srpsko-Hrvatski jezik, po dvije najvece nacije u ex-SFRJ, jer je to jedan jezik sa vise narjecja i izgovornih grupa tj. dijalekata.
Pa, ako me pitas, ja cu ti reci da crnogorski jezik postoji, kao i srpski, hrvatski ili bosnjacki. Ja licno govorim SAVRSENIM KNJIZEVNIM SRPSKIM JEZIKOM, jer me u skoli naucise tako, a i rodjen sam u BiH.:)

[dimitrije]

Znas li zbog cega sam kao avatar stavio Njegosevu sliku u svestenickoj odori?Мислим да ниси достојан његове слике јер си пљуно на све што је он радио
ево ти његових речи
Српски пишем и зборим,
сваком громко говорим:
народност ми србинска,
ум и душа славјанска.


Znas li sta po pravoslavnom kanonu oznacava bijela pankamilavka i ko je JEDINI danas u SPC nosi?Не знам шта означава али знам да је носи његова светост патријах Павле
какав ти је однос према овој секти која хоће да насилно узима српке манастире


Znas li odredbe Ustava za Knjazevinu Crnu Goru iz 1905 godine koje se odnose na NARODNOST, JEZIK I DRZAVNU RELIGIJU(tj. vjeru i crkvu)?Знам да се учио у школама србски буквар,и да су се црногорци службеним књигама изјашњавали као ,,спрска националност''
Znas li ko je bio Mitrofan ban, a ko Gavrilo Dozic, i kakve veze oni imaju jedan sa drugim?

[VAMPIR]

Dostojnost je licni stav tvoj, i ja to postujem, bas kao i svaki drugi licni stav.
Bijela pankamilavka oznacava autokefalnost crkve u Pravoslavlju. Sa istorijskim cinjenicama se moze manipulisati, a sa pravilima kanona ne. Eto ti odgovora zasto je danas ne nosi mitropolit Amfilohije.
Greska:
NARODNOST: crnogorska
VJERA : srpska (pravoslavna)
JEZIK : narodni (crnogorski)
To su odredbe ustava. U tom ustavu se naglasava da je Crnogorska mitropolija autokefalna " ...sa svojom pastvom i bez gospodara..."
Procitaj Njegosevu prepisku sa protom Matejom Nenadovicem, kao i testament, pa ce ti mnoge stvari biti jasne.
Da apsolviram. Mi smo jedan narod, u dvije nacije.:)

[VAMPIR]

Pogledaj ovo :

Trebali bi biti poznati svi argumenti o viševjekovnoj stvarnoj i dvovjekovnoj formalnoj autokefalnosti Crnogorske mitropolije:

katalog Svetog sinoda Ruske crkve iz 1851
atinska Sintagma Vaseljenske patrijaršije iz 1855, čiju je pečatnju odobrila Carigradska patrijarsija, pod broj 9 navedena je “Autokefalna Mitropolija crnogorska”
Bogišićeva anketa (u kojoj najviđeniji ljudi u Crnoj Gori, među kojima su i vladar i vladika, potvrdili da je “Crnogorska crkva posve avtokefalna i osobenu jerarhiju ima, a nema nikakvih zvaničnih odnosaja s drugim avtokefalnim crkvama, nego mir i ljubav”
“Pravoslavno crkveno pravo” (1890) doktora Nikodima Milaša, episkopa dalmatinskoga i istrij(an)skoga, te brojna druga djela, putopisi, pisma i sjećanja
Profesor Petrogradske duhovne akademije G. Paljmov, u majskoj svesci “Hristijanskoje ctenije”, 1905, hvali zalaganje mitropolita Bana “da se za Crnogorsku crkvu napišu ustavi sv.Sinoda i Konsistorije, a i ta dva ustava, kao i Ustav Knjaževine Crne Gore (1905), u čijem 40.članu se takođe govori o autokefalnosti Crnogorske crkve (“Crnogorska je crkva autokefalna. Ona ne zavisi ni od koje strane crkve, ali održava jedinstvo u dogmama s istočno-pravoslavnom Vaseljenskom crkvom”
Posebno su ilustrativne čestitke povodom 25-godišnjice arhijerejske službe potonjeg mitropolita autokefalne Crnogorske crkve Mitrofana Bana (1910).:

Uz srdačne cestitke, u telegramu carigradskog (vaseljenskog) patrijarha Joakima III nalazi se i blagoslov : “Gospod neka podari Vašem visokopreosveštenstvu, svetoj Crnogorskoj crkvi, blagovjernom Gospodaru I pobožnom narodu crnogorskom blage svoje darove”(Carigrad – “Fanar, 6.april 1910).
A u adresi zetskog svještenstva se ističe:”Vašu pak 25-godisnju patnju i muku za dobro i napredak Crnogorske crkve krunisali ste najvećim dobročinstvom…”
Mitropolit petrogradski Antonij, u ime Svetog ruskog Sinoda, šalje Mitrofanu Banu tople želje “da Vašem visokopreosveštenstvu pastironačelnik Gospod nas Isus Hristos udijeli dugi život u plodotvornoj službi Vašoj za dobro Crnogorske crkve”(Petrograd, 6.april 1910).
Povodom tog jubileja iz Beograda je stigla telegram-čestitka:”Srpska crkva, kao sestra i po vjeri i po narodnosti, deli radost Crnogorske crkve…” itd

[VAMPIR]

...a pogledaj i ovo...kao prilog...


ČESTITKA ANTIOHIJSKOGA PATRIJARHA KRALJU NIKOLI



Crna Gora je 1910. godine u pogledu oblika vladavine postala Kraljevina (Monarhija). Nikola I Petrović Njegoš proglašen je za crnogorskoga kralja. Između mnogobrojnih čestitki koje je tim povodom primio izdvajamo sljedeću:

Njegova Svetost Patrijarh Antiohiski Grigorije poslao je preko Carsko-ruskog poslanstva Njegovom Veličanstvu Kralju Gospodaru na dar ikonu Sv. Bogorodice sa pismom, koje u prevodu sa arapskog jezika glasi:



Njegovom Veličanstvu

Preblagočestivom Kralju Nikoli I



Petnajesti avgust, blagosloveni dan, koji mi napominje milosti i obimne blagodati, Našega Gospodara, Boga, jer tog istog dana 1906. godine ja sam uzašao po milosti Svetoga Duha na presto Patrijaršijski Prvoprestolnih Apostola Petra i Pavla, danas postaje izvor radosti i veselja za Sveto Pravoslavlje cijelog svijeta, jer danas vidimo Vašu glavu, obasutu poštovanjem i obožavanjem, a tako i mudrošću ispunjenu, koje Vas je učinila predmetom uvažavanja i divljenja Velikodušnih Ruskih Careva. S kojom ste mudrošću znali upravljati predstojno Vašu Srećnu Knjaževinu kroz čitavo po vijeka, okrunjenu pravoslavnom krunom i kao što to vidi Vaš vjerni narod, radan i hrabar, predan pravoslavlju i gleda svoga omiljenog Knjaza na dostojanstvu Njihovih Veličanstava Kraljeva.

Sasvim je dakle pravedno da danas naše duše veličaju Gospodara a naši duhovi da se raduju u Gospodu, koji je naš spasitelj, i za to Antiohiska crkva uzimlje udjela u velikoj radosti svoje sestre Svete Crnogorske Crkve. Smatrao sam dužnošću da otslužim sa svim mojim patrijaršijskim klirom u prisustvu velikog broja moje pastve svetu liturgiju, namijenjenu Vašem Veličanstvu vozljubljenom u Gospodu.

Ja ovim uzimljem slobodu da podnesem Vašem Kraljevskom Prestolu moja Patrijaršiska čestitanja i moje očinske želje duboko iskrene, moleći Gospoda i Cara Careva, da Vas sačuva još svetom desnicom za dug i presrećan život na korist i na sreću države koju Vam je Svevišnji povjerio, da sačuva Nj. V. Preblagočestivu Kraljicu Vašu uzvišenu Suprugu, Nj. Kr. V. Knjaza Našljednika i cijelu Kraljevsku porodicu, da blagoslovi Vaš Narod i uzdrži i štiti Vašu Slavnu Kraljevinu.

U znak blagoslova slobodan sam poslat V. Veličanstvu ikonu Sv. Bogorodice, zaštitnice naše patrijaršijske katedralne crkve, i kao dokaz moje istinske ljubavi prema V. Veličanstvu i mog velikog veselja za ovaj srećan dan, ja se usuđujem upraviti Vam ovo pismo, sa kojim Vam podnosim moje duboko poštovanje.

Neka je milost Božja s Vama i neka Vas prati.

Čast mi je biti Vašega Veličanstva vrlo vatreni i ponizni molitvenik u Hristu.





Damask, 15. avgust 1910.

Grigorije

Patrijarh Antiohiski i cijelog istoka





Izvor: "Glas Crnogorca", subota 18. decembar 1910. godine, strana 1.

[VAMPIR]

..a onda ovo...
RAZGOVOR VALTAZARA BOGIŠIĆA I NIĆIFORA DUČIĆA O CRNOGORSKOJ PRAVOSLAVNOJ CRKVI



Čuveni pravnik i naučnik svjetskog glasa, profesor Univerziteta dr Valtazar Bogišić, pisac "Opšteg imovinskog zakonika za Knjaževinu Crnu Goru" (1888) i prvi crnogorski ministar pravde, sproveo je 1873. godine jednu važnu anketu. Na pitanja u Anketi Valtazara Bogišića odgovarao je i arhimandrit Nićifor Dučić.



Valtazar Bogišić: "Crnogorska crkva drži li se autokefalna, ako ne, pod čijom jurisdikcijom stoji, pod Patrijarhom carigradskim ili pod Svetim sinodom peterburžskim"?

Nićifor Dučić: "Posve autokefalna i osobenu jerarhiju ima".

Valtazar Bogišić: "Stoji li Crnogorska crkva u kakvom odnošaju međusobnih darova sa Sinodom peterburžskim ili s Patrijaršijom carigradskom? Daje li ovomu posljednjemu kakvu godišnju potporu kao što daje Srbija i Grčka? Ima li još kakav drugi odnošaj među njima"?

Nićifor Dučić: "Uzajamnosti nema, nego što samo Sinod šalje kadkad na ime priloga crkvene stvari, knjiga, odežda itd., što čine iz Rusije često pojedini ljudi... Carigradskom patrijarhu niti je kad što davala Crnogorska crkva, niti sada daje, niti joj je ko što u tome iskao, niti ište. Nema nikakvog drugog odnošaja osim što se u novije vrijeme vladike crnogorske posvećuju u Petrogradu".

Valtazar Bogišić: "A u kom je odnošaju Crnogorska crkva sa srpskom Patrijaršijom u Karlovcima, a u kakvom s mitropolitom beogradskim, s bugarskim egzarhatom i s drugim autokefalnim crkvama"?

Nićifor Dučić: "Nema zvanična odnošaja nikakva, nego mir i ljubav".

Valtazar Bogišić: "Ima li kakav pismeni ugovor među Crnogorskom crkvom i jednom od navedenih pravoslavnih autokefalnih vlasti i crkava kojima su ustanovljena pravila međusobnog odnošaja"?

Nićifor Dučić: "Nema nikakvog s nikim".

Valtazar Bogišić: "Da mitropoliti Crnogorski primaju svoju hirotoniju u Petrogradu je li neizbježno pravilo ili to biva iz običaja i rad kojih uzroka? Ako nije pravilo, kakve ustanove postoje u rukopoloženju mitropolita"?

Nićifor Dučić: "Nije to nikakvo pravilo, nego u novije vrijeme postade običaj iz političkih uzroka, budući da je glava crkve do nedavno bio i glava države, a pak sadašnji mitropolit tek je treći koji se rukopolaže u Petrogradu".



Izvor: Dr Valatazar Bogišić, Pravni običaji u Crnoj Gori, Hercegovini i Istočnoj Albaniji, priredio dr Tomica Nikčević, CANU, Titograd, 1984, str. 238-239.

[VAMPIR]

...a za kraj ovo...
KRATKI OSVRT NA ISTORIJAT CRNOGORSKE PRAVOSLAVNE CRKVE

(Činjenice i dokazi koje treba znati)



Veoma značajan stub u izgrađivanju crnogorske nacije, učvršćivanju i afirmisanju Crne Gore kao slobodne i nezavisne države, predstavljala je vijekovima autokefalna Crnogorska pravoslavna crkva, njena snaga autoriteta i uticaj na društvene tokove i procese.

Ruvima II Njeguša (1593-1637), kao i sve kasnije crnogorske mitropolite, na čelo Crnogorske pravoslavne crkve nije postavljao pećki patrijarh, niti mu je prerogative političke i klerikalne vlasti dodjeljivao Sultan carskom ispravom, ili, pak, neki drugi organ bilo koje strane države ili sile. Naprotiv, Opštecrnogorski zbor je izabrao, svojom slobodnom i vrhovnom voljom Ruvima II Njeguša za vladiku crnogorskog. U načinu izbora i vršenja svojih dužnosti, kao i odgovornosti, ogledao se legitimitet mitropolitske i političke vlasti Ruvima II Njeguša i svih docnijih mitropolita u vrijeme postojanja Crne Gore kao teokratske države. Izbor crnogorskih vladika izjašnjavanjem Crnogoraca, okupljenih pod otvorenim nebom ispred Cetinjskog manastira, postaće tradicija i običajno pravo, od kojega neće biti odstupanja. Crnogorski narod postaće izvorni nosilac suvereniteta i vjekovima će slobodno odlučivati o izboru svojih političkih korifeja i duhovnih pastira.

U doba vladike Petra II Petrovića Njegoša, ruski dvorski savjetnik dr Aleksandar fon Rojc, profesor Pravnog fakulteta u Dorpatu, boravio je u Crnoj Gori. Zapisao je na jednom mjestu: "Crnogorska crkva je samostalna. Ne stoji pod vlašću ni patrijarha ni nekih drugih crkvenih poglavara, nego je arhipastir poglavar manastira i mirskih svještenika. Što se on posvećuje izvan svoje zemlje, to zavisi od okolnosti i shvatanja starog crkvenog pravila, a to nikako ne znači da je on nekome podložan".[1]

Sultan Mustafa III je 11. IX 1766. godine beratom ukinuo Pećku patrijaršiju. Pošto je carigradski patrijarh Samuilo I Hanceris (1764-1780) isplatio dugove Pećke patrijaršije, vrhovna vlast Turske Carevine subordinirala je njenu, već bivšu, teritoriju Carigradskoj (fanariotskoj) patrijaršiji. Tada je potonji patrijarh Pećke patrijaršije Kalinik II carigradskom patrijarhu Samuilu I Hancerisu podnio ostavku. Nestalo je tada Pećke patrijaršije. "Mitropoliti Crne Gore nijesu priznavali nad sobom vlast ni Porte ni Fanara. Otvorenim otporom i protiv Sultana i protiv Carigradske patrijaršije, oni su besprimjernom energijom i rijetkom smjelošću produžili i dalje izvodili veliko djelo oslobođenja svoga naroda. Davajući u neprekidnim borbama s uspjehom otpore i protiv Turske Carevine i svojih drugih neprijatelja i smatrajući sebe neograničenim gospodarima svoje uže domovine, Mitropoliti Crnogorski zasnovali su u Crnoj Gori svoju nezavisnu teokratsku vladavinu".[2]

Crnogorska mitropolija bila je izvan kanonskog i organizacionog ustrojstva i domašaja Carigradske patrijaršije. Crnogorska pravoslavna crkva odlikovala se eksteritorijalnošću u odnosu na Carigradsku patrijaršiju, koja je bila ekspozitura interesa Turske Carevine. "Carigradska patrijaršija nije pretendovala nad Crnogorskom crkvom, držeći se kanoničkog pravila da crkvene granice jedne nezavisne države nemaju ulaziti u granice druge nezavisne države".[3]

Dr Nikodim Milaš (1845-1915), kanonista i crkveni velikodostojnik, u svojoj poznatoj knjizi "Pravoslavno crkveno pravo", pored ostalog piše: "Pored tih općih izvora, postoje još posebni izvori za pojedine crkve. Ovi izvori uslovljeni su položajem crkve u državama, i tiču se odnošaja crkve k državi i spoljašnje administracije crkvene. Zakoni, koji opredjeljuju odnošaj crkve k državi i određuju spoljašnju administraciju crkvenu, imaju u dotičnim državama značaj obaveznosti, kako za crkvu, tako i za državu, jer su izdani ili zajedničkom crkvenom i državnom vlašću, ili ih je izdala jedna od tih vlasti, a druga primila i potvrdila. po katalogu Carigradske patrijaršije, izdanom u aprilu 1855. godine, postojale su sljedeće pomjesne crkve sa svojom samostalnom upravom ili samoupravne crkve (autokefalne): 1. Carigradska, 2. Aleksandrijska, 3. Antiohijska, 4. Jerusalimska, 5. Kiparska, 6. Ruska, 7. Karlovačka, 8. Sinajska, 9. Crnogorska i 10. Crkva u Kraljevini Grčkoj. K ovima imaju se dodati od novijega doba: 11. Sibinjska, 12. Bugarska, 13. Černovicko-dalmatinska, 14. Crkva u Kraljevini Srbiji i 15. Crkva u Kraljevini Rumuniji".[4]

"Pri državnoj samostalnosti Crne Gore, i crkva u njoj, kojoj je poglavica u isto vrijeme bio i gospodar zemlje, smatrala se samostalnom u svome ustrojstvu i unutrašnjoj upravi, kao što je samostalna i danas. Samostalnost Cetinjske mitropolije priznala je i Carigradska patrijaršija".[5]

Govoreći o "postavljanju prvih episkopa današnjih samostalnih pomjesnih crkava" dr Nikodim Milaš, između ostalog konstatuje da "Cetinjskog mitropolita imenuje knez crnogorski".[6]

Dr Radoslav Grujić decidirano navodi da je Crnogorska pravoslavna crkva imala punu autokefalnost. To on sasvim jasno apostrofira i sljedećim tekstom: "Poslije ukidanja Pećke patrijaršije Sava Petrović je proglasio sebe samostalnim mitropolitom. Ovu samostalnost priznao je docnije Sveti Sinod Ruske pravoslavne crkve, a zatim i Carigradska patrijaršija".[7]

Dr Radoslav Grujić je eksplicitan kada potencira: "Pošto je 1766. godine Pećka patrijaršija ponovo ukinuta, Crnogorska mitropolija nije bila podvlašćena Carigradskoj patrijaršiji ... već se oslonila na Rusku crkvu koja joj je priznala autokefalnost".[8]

Carigradska patrijaršija je i izričito, oficijelno, sa stanovišta kanona, priznala autokefalnost Crnogorske pravoslavne crkve. Glavni argument za to predstavlja zvanični Katalog autokefalnih pravoslavnih crkava "Sintagma", koja je, po odobrenju Carigradske patrijaršije, objavljena u Atini 1855. godine. U atinskoj "Sintagmi" pod rednim brojem 9 navodi se Crnogorska pravoslavna crkva kao autokefalna. [9]

"Za vrijeme vladičanstva Petra I Petrovića Njegoša, Sveti Sinod Ruski priznao je Pravoslavnu crkvu u Crnoj Gori potpuno nezavisnom kakva je i do današnjih dana ostala".[10]

Opštecrnogorski zbor je, sa svojeg oficijelnog vijećanja, 13. I 1804. godine, štiteći Petra Prvog i Crnu Goru, uputio protestno pismo ruskom Caru Aleksandru I. U tom obraćanju predstavnici crnogorskog naroda su izričiti: "Naš mitropolit nikada nije bio pod zapovijesti ruskog Sinoda, nego samo pod pokroviteljstvom Vašeg imperatorskog Veličanstva, a i to pod moralnim, i to tako da do sad nijesmo bili ni od koga branjeni: mjesto silne odbrane počinjemo trpjeti silno gonjenje. Sveti Sinod nema nikakvog prava nad arhijerejima, koji nijesu podvlasni, izvan predjela ruskih granica, đe je njihova vlast, i po ovome s našim arhipastirom nema nikakva posla".[11]

U pismu "Praviteljstva suda crnogorskog i brdskog" ruskom oficiru Marku Iveliću, sa Cetinja 3. jula 1804. godine, kaže se, između ostalog, i ovo: "Naš gospodin Mitropolit ostao je sam za sebe u ovdašnjoj crkvi, nezavisan ni od kakve vlasti".[12]

U nezavisnoj i međunarodno priznatoj Crnoj Gori, živjela je Crnogorska pravoslavna crkva na osnovu vlastitih legislativnih akata, uredbi, opštih pravila pravoslavnog crkvenog prava i starih običaja. U tom pogledu od fundamentalne važnosti je pomenuti: Ustav Svetog Sinoda u Knjaževini Crnoj Gori (1903.); Ustav pravoslavnih konsistorija u Knjaževini Crnoj Gori (1904.); Zakon o parohijskom svještenstvu (1909.). Status Crnogorske pravoslavne crkve regulisan je i: "Ustavom za Knjaževinu Crnu Goru" donešenom na Nikoljdan 1905. godine.

"Godine 1888. Mitropolit Mitrofan bio je izaslan od Knjaza Gospodara kao predstavnik Crnogorske crkve u Rusiju, u Kijev, da prisustvuje velikom slavlju ruskom - slavlju devetstogodišnjice primanja Hrišćanstva, i tom prilikom je, na dan 15. jula, služio službu Božju zajedno sa kijevskim mitropolitom Platonom i beogradskim Mihailom".[13]

U članu 1. "Ustava Svetoga Sinoda u Knjaževini Crnoj Gori" iz 1903. godine se kaže: "Avtokefalna pravoslavna Mitropolija u Knjaževini Crnoj Gori, kao član jedine, svete, katoličanske i apostolske crkve, kojoj je pastironačelnik i glava Gospod i Bog naš Isus Hristos, čuva i održava jedinstvo u dogmatima i u kanoničkim ustanovama sa svima drugima pravoslavnim, avtokefalnim crkvama, i ovo će jedinstvo ona čuvati i održavati do vijeka". O autokefalnosti Crnogorske pravoslavne crkve govore i članovi 2. i 15. pomenutoga Ustava.[14]

U "Ustavu za Knjaževinu Crnu Goru" 1905. godine bilo je normirano u članu 40. sljedeće: "Državna vjera je u Crnoj Gori istočno pravoslavna. Crnogorska je crkva autokefalna. Ona ne zavisi ni od koje strane Crkve, ali održava jedinstvo u dogmama s istočno pravoslavnom Vaseljenskom crkvom. Sve ostale priznate vjeroispovijesti slobodne su u Crnoj Gori".[15]

Na osnovu sporazuma između Vlade Kraljevine SHS i Carigradske patrijaršije od 18. marta 1920. godine "Sveti Arhijerejski Sinod Vaseljenske patrijaršije donio je odluku od 19. marta 1920. godine, broj 2056., kojom daje blagoslov na prisajedinjenje Ujedinjenoj Srpskoj pravoslavnoj crkvi eparhija u Južnoj Srbiji, Bosni i Hercegovini"[16]. Vlada Kraljevine SHS isplatila je Carigradskoj patrijaršiji za taj pristanak milion i pet stotina hiljada zlatnih franaka. Tom odlukom Carigradska patrijaršija oslobađa od svoje vlasti i prisajedinjuje Ujedinjenoj Pravoslavnoj srpskoj crkvi eparhije koje su do tada bile pod njenom upravom "i priznaje proglašeno ujedinjenje autokefalnih Crkava Srpske, Crnogorske i Karlovačke, kao i dviju dalmatinskih eparhija"[17]. "Tako autokefalne crkve - Crkva Kraljevine Srbije, Karlovačka i Crnogorska i neki djelovi crkve Bukovinsko-dalmatinske sjedinili su se 1920. godine"[18]. "Sinod je priznao proglašenje ujedinjenih autokefalnih crkava: Srpske, Crnogorske i Karlovačke".[19]

Proglašenje uspostavljene Srpske patrijaršije izvršeno je u Sremskim Karlovcima 12. (25.) septembra 1920. godine, u prisustvu regenta Aleksandra, predstavnika Vlade i skupštine Kraljevine SHS i mnogih klirika. Ubrzo potom, sastao se Arhijerejski Sabor Srpske patrijaršije 15. (28.) septembra 1920. godine, koji je donio odluku da se arhiepiskop beogradski i mitropolit Srbije Dimitrije Pavlović proglasi ipso jure prvim patrijarhom Srpske patrijaršije. U toj odluci navode se razlozi za takav potez i, pored ostalog, kaže se: "Slično tome postupalo se i kod osnivanja nacionalnih autokefalnih oblasti u svima pravoslavnim državama. Tako su uzdignute katedre na stupanj autokefalne arhiepiskopije u prestonim gradovima Atini za crkvu u Kraljevini Grčkoj, u Beogradu za crkvu u Kraljevini Srbiji, na Cetinju za crkvu u Crnoj Gori, u Bukureštu za Rumuniju, u Sofiji za Bugarsku, a u Rusiji dignut je arhijerejski presto druge prestonice u Moskvi na stupanj patrijaršije".[20]

Carigradska patrijaršija je, za vrijeme Melentija IV, izdala 19. februara 1922. godine tomos kojim se izuzimaju ispod njezine dotadašnje kanonske uprave eparhije koje su poslije balkanskih ratova i Prvog svjetskog rata teritorijalno i politički pripale Kraljevstvu SHS i kojim se priznaje ujedinjenje pravoslavnih crkava sa Pravoslavnom crkvom Kraljevine Srbije. Pored ostaloga, u tom dokumentu se navodi da se "priznaje proglašeno jedinstvo autokefalnih crkava: Srpske, Crnogorske i Karlovačke, kao i dviju dalmatinskih eparhija"[21]. U Kanonskom pismu Vaseljenskog patrijarha Melentija IV i Svetoga Sinoda vaseljenske patrijaršije od 24. februara 1922. godine (broj protokola 1036.) kojim se priznaje uzdizanje Srpske pravoslavne crkve Kraljevstva SHS na stepen Patrijaršije kaže se i ovo: "Posavjetovavši se o tom pitanju po dužnosti sa našim Svetim Sinodom pohvalismo želju crkve i države i priznali smo korist, koju pravoslavlje može imati od takvog uzdignuća, a način postupanja našli smo da je u saglasnosti više sa crkvenom ekonomijom (oportunšću), nego li sa preciznošću kanonskog reda".[22]

Prije nekoliko godine obnovljena je autokefalna Crnogorska pravoslavna crkva. Na Lučindan 31. oktobra 1993. godine na Crnogorskom saboru pod otvorenim nebom, na Cetinju, ispred dvorca kralja Nikole I Petrovića Njegoša, u duhu tradicije, Crnogorci su izabrali za svojega crkvenog poglavara Gospodina Antonija Abramovića, tadašnjeg klirika Ruske pravoslavne crkve u Kanadi (Toronto). Nakon smrti blaženopočivšeg Antonija Abramovića, Crnogorci su izabrali aklamacijom na Badnji dan, 6. januara 1997. godine za svojega novog crkvenog starješinu Gospodina Miraša Dedeića, tadašnjeg svještenika Grčke pravoslavne crkve sa službom u Rimu. Gospodin Miraš (Mihailo) Dedeić je 15. marta 1998. godine, u sabornom hramu Svete Paraskeve u Sofiji, kanonski rukopoložen za episkopa Crnogorske pravoslavne crkve. Hirotoniju je izvršio, sada već blaženopočivši, patrijarh Bugarske pravoslavne crkve Njegova Svetost Gospodin Pimen. Pored njega u rukopolaganju Mihaila Dedeića za episkopa obnovljene Crnogorske pravoslavne crkve prisustvovali su: Inokentije, mitropolit sofijski, Genadij, mitropolit dorostolski i još pet episkopa i četiri svještenika. Ta hirotonija imala je podršku i blagoslov Ukrajinske pravoslavne crkve. Patrijarh Pimen je tada, uz ostalo, rekao: "Našem Svetom Sinodu bila je velika čast da rukopoložimo arhimandrita Mihaila za episkopa Crnogorsko-primorskog i ja mu želim da u službi Hrišćanstva nosi sa sobom pravu snagu Hristove slobode"[23]. O razlozima koji su opredijelili Bugarsku pravoslavnu crkvu da rukopoloži Mihaila Dedeića za episkopa Crnogorske pravoslavne crkve govorio je i Anatolij Balačev, glavni sekretar i portparol Svetog Sinoda Bugarske pravoslavne crkve. [24]



P.S.: Ovaj tekst je u formi zvaničnog dokumenta upućen Bugarskoj pravoslavnoj crkvi.



FUSNOTE:

[1] Dr Dragoje Živković, "Istorija crnogorskog naroda", Tom II, Cetinje, 1992, str. 541.

[2] Dr Gavrilo Dožić (1881-1950), velikodostojnik Crnogorske pravoslavne crkve u vrijeme njenog postojanja i kasniji patrijarh Srpske patrijaršije je ovo zapisao 1935. godine u Predgovoru knjige "Poslanice Svetoga Petra mitropolita cetinjskog". Taj Predgovor objavljen je i u knjizi Mitra M. Džakovića, "Životno djelo patrijarha srpskog Gavrila", Pariz, 1983. godine.

[3] Ž. M. Marinković i J. Igumanović, "Istorija opšte hrišćanske i Srpske pravoslavne crkve", Beograd, 1934., str. 131. Štampano po odobrenju Svetog arhijerejskog Sinoda Srpske pravoslavne crkve i po preporuci glavnog Prosvjetnog savjeta. Ova knjiga je bila udžbenik za učenike Bogoslovije.

[4] Dr Nikodim Milaš, "Pravoslavno crkveno pravo", Bar, 1998., str. 132.

[5] Dr Nikodim Milaš, op. cit. str. 297-298.

[6] Dr Nikodim Milaš, op. cit. str. 320. U vrijeme teokratske Crne Gore mitropolita je na Opštecrnogorskom zboru birao narod, a kada je Crna Gora postala sekularna država u doba knjaza Danila Petrovića (1852-1860) i u eri vladavine knjaza/kralja Nikole Petrovića (1860-1918) mitropolite Crnogorske pravoslavne crkve postavljao je Knjaz Gospodar, kao vrhovni organ centralne državne vlasti.

[7] Dr Radoslav Grujić, "Pravoslavna Srpska crkva", Beograd, 1920., str. 140.

[8] Dr Radoslav Grujić, "Crnogorska mitropolija", objavljeno u knjizi "Narodna enciklopedija srpsko-hrvatsko-slovenačka", prof. Stanoja Stanojevića, Zagreb, 1929., str. 923.

[9] G. A. Rali i M. Potli, "Sintagma", t. V, Atina, 1855, str. 529. Na atinsku "Sintagmu" se poziva i dr Nikodim Milaš u navedenoj knjizi (str. 132.).

[10] Jevrosije Popović i dr Mojsije Stojkov, "Opća crkvena istorija sa crkveno-statističkim dodatkom", knjiga II, Sremski Karlovci, 1912., str. 642.

[11] Pismo ruskom Caru Aleksandru I potpisano je od strane guvernadura Vuka Radonjića i ostalih crnogorskih glavara. Ono je integralno objavljeno i u ovim knjigama: Milorad Medaković, "Povjesnica Crne Gore od najstarijeg vremena do 1830.", Zemun, 1850., str. 151-155; Jan Vaclik, "Suverenitet Crne Gore i savremeno međunarodno pravo u Evropi", CID, Podgorica, 1996., str. 144-150.

[12] Pismo "Praviteljstva suda crnogorskog i brdskog" ruskom oficiru Marku Iveliću potpisano je od strane: guvernadura Vuka Radonjića, svih serdara, vojvoda, knezova, barjaktara, visokih crkvenih ličnosti. Na tom pismu utisnut je pečat na kojemu je pisalo: "Pečat opšti crnogorski". U cjelini to pismo je objavljeno: "Zapisi", knjiga XXII, sv. 5, Cetinje, 1939.; Dimitrije Milaković, "Istorija Crne Gore", Pančevo, 1860., str. 180-185.; Jan Vaclik, navedeno djelo, str. 144-150.

[13] "Pedeset godina na prestolu Crne Gore 1860-1910", Cetinje, 1910., str. 100.

[14] "Ustav Svetoga Sinoda u Knjaževini Crnoj Gori", Cetinje, K. C. Državna štamparija, 1904.

[15] "Ustav za Knjaževinu Crnu Goru" od 1905. godine, II izdanje, Cetinje, K. C. Državna štamparija, 1907., str. 12.

[16] Ta odluka objavljena je u cjelini u beogradskom "Glasniku", službenom listu Srpske pravoslavne patrijaršije, br. 7., god. I, od 1.(14.) oktobra 1920. godine, str. 99-100.

[17] "Glasnik", br. 7, Beograd, 1.(14.) oktobar 1920., str. 100. Vidjeti i : Dr Dušan K. Petrović, "Ujedinjenje Srpske crkve i obnova patrijaršije", Beograd, 1969., Izdanje Svetog arhijerejskog Sinoda Srpske pravoslavne crkve.

[18] Sergije Troicki, "Suština i faktori autokefalije", Beograd, 1933.

[19] Dr Branko Petranović, "Kraljevina Jugoslavija 1918-1941", Nolit, Beograd, 1990.

[20] "Glasnik", Službeni list Srpske pravoslavne patrijaršije, br. 7., god. I, Beograd, 1. (14.) oktobar 1920., str. 102.

[21] Ovaj Tomos Vaseljenskog patrijarha Melentija IV i Svetog Sinoda Vaseljenske patrijaršije u Carigradu od 19. februara 1922. godine (broj protokola 1148.) nedvosmisleno dokazuje da je Crnogorska pravoslavna crkva imala kanonsku autokefalnost.

[22] Sve ovo ukazuje da je postupak stvaranja Srpske patrijaršije bio praćen brojnim neregularnostima sa stanovišta kanona. U tom poslu veliki upliv igrao je i novac.

[The Serb]

Da li je neko cuo za kulturu dijaloga???
Mozda bih i trebao ignorisati ovakve poruke, ali necu. To je najlakse. A za izrazavanje ovakvih stavova postoje manje plemeniti borilacki sportovi. Oni plemeniti imaju pravila i nivo, a ovo... :confused:
Elem, :) , ja sam pravoslavni Crnogorac, vise nego odlicno upucen u svoju istoriju i tradiciju. Crnogorski patriota. Jasno pravim razliku izmedju patriotizma i nacional-sovinizma, aka. ETNOCENTRIZMA. Odatle ovakav moj stav. A raspolozen sam za provjeru uvijek, pa AKO BAS I MORA OVAKO, BEZ KULTURE.
To bi trebao biti dokaz da ne posjedujem, (ili ne prepoznajem, ko ce ga znat!:) ) komplekse nize vrijednosti, i razlicite krize licnosti (morala, identiteta...)
Odgovaram na konkretna pitanja, any time...

Ti ces da mi pricas nesto o kulturi i nacionalizmu majmune jedan smrdljivi.

Ti mozes i da tvrdis da si marsovac to mene uopste ne zanima ti si obican sljam i olos. Nadam se da cemo jednog dana ocistiti nasu Crnu Goru od takvog nakota. Jebali te Broz i Milo u dupe smrdljivo lojavo!

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Ti ces da mi pricas nesto o kulturi i nacionalizmu majmune jedan smrdljivi.

Ti mozes i da tvrdis da si marsovac to mene uopste ne zanima ti si obican sljam i olos. Nadam se da cemo jednog dana ocistiti nasu Crnu Goru od takvog nakota. Jebali te Broz i Milo u dupe smrdljivo lojavo!

Kakva logika u debate :rofl: potukao si ga :bbbat: :rofl:

[Zrinski]

Kakva logika u debate :rofl: potukao si ga :bbbat: :rofl:


Haha...pa to je standardno za budale njegovog tipa...kad te potuku do koljena onda od mitova prebac na vrijednja i prijetnje. :rofl:
Sto mislis koliko moras biti jadan da bi nekome prijetio preko interneta? :p

[Watzy]

Zašto nus-braća Srbi izbjegavaju temu???

Ovamo pišu malo o ustašama, onamo pak malo o Muslimanima, pa malo o Wikipediji, pa malo o Albancima, pa malo o Židovima, pa malo o Cernobogu, pa malo o mojoj malenkosti...sve osim bolne činjenice od koje bježe. :nopity:

Pa čemu to nojevsko zabadanje glave u pjesak pred realitetom!? Pa nije kvragu istina 4. gardijska da od nje morate bježati glavom bez obzira. :rolleyes:

[dimitrije]

Mislim da nisam izbegavao temu,'ajde ti reci sta su to srbi ovde izbegavali?!!

[Watzy]

Mislim da nisam izbegavao temu,'ajde ti reci sta su to srbi ovde izbegavali?!!

http://thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=92659&postcount=83
http://thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=92462&postcount=64
http://thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=92498&postcount=66
http://thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=92514&postcount=69
http://thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=93530&postcount=92

[Slavic Enforcer]

I hope this young republic will get no problems with the Albanians.

[VAMPIR]

I hope this young republic will get no problems with the Albanians.
I think that there no reason to. For centuries we are living in peace with no kind of disturbing each other. Why now it would be different? :confused:

[VAMPIR]

....other than that, the Albos are 6,5% of Montenegro people, not like in Kosovo (about 75% or more before war) or FYR Macedonia (about 35%).

[Slavic Enforcer]

....other than that, the Albos are 6,5% of Montenegro people, not like in Kosovo (about 75% or more before war) or FYR Macedonia (about 35%).

OK, but do me a favour and don't let many of them in.

Otherwise one day they will say it's not Montenegro but Montenegra (like Kosova - a word that probably makes no sense in Albanian), and then you would have a problem.

Pozdrav!

[6(sic)6]

OK, but do me a favour and don't let many of them in.

Otherwise one day they will say it's not Montenegro but Montenegra (like Kosova - a word that probably makes no sense in Albanian), and then you would have a problem.

Pozdrav!
Don't worry Montengro dosen't work like serbia where greedy ex commie are chosen as president and decideds to first attck bosnia then Kosova.
:thanks:

[6(sic)6]

I hope this young republic will get no problems with the Albanians.
Don't worry about albos think more of the serbs who now is pretty pissed off after losing Montenegro.

[The Serb]

Kakva logika u debate :rofl: potukao si ga :bbbat: :rofl:

Do 'debate' sa mongrilima mi je stalo kao do lanjskog snega.

[Bajlozi]

I hope this young republic will get no problems with the Albanians.
Ther will always be problems when we Shqiptars live side by side with any forms/versions of serbs, its a natural order wich we are very well aware of.

Greetings!

[dimitrije]

I hope this young republic will get no problems with the Albanians.
Yes it will be many of problems, shiptars have plan to take the part of Montenegro.
That was their idea since the beginning, that is the reason why they have voted on referendum for independence
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7955/k7ar0br.png (http://imageshack.us)

It is really sad how cernobog don’t realize real sitation!!

[Slavic Enforcer]

Don't worry Montengro dosen't work like serbia where greedy ex commie are chosen as president and decideds to first attck bosnia then Kosova.
:thanks:

Albanian separatists on Kosovo were most responsible for his rise.

[Aragorn]

Congrulations to Monte Negro and its Monte negrian people.:) :)

Finally justice after the fall of Montenegrian independant state became in Serb hands in 1918.

Greater Serbia shows that it was just an illusion. Greater Serbia became smaller Serbia:thanks: :thanks:

[The Serb]

Congrulations to Monte Negro and its Monte negrian people.:) :)

Finally justice after the fall of Montenegrian independant state became in Serb hands in 1918.

Greater Serbia shows that it was just an illusion. Greater Serbia became smaller Serbia:thanks: :thanks:

If I were from the Netherlands I wouldnt be concerning myself too much with Serbia and Montenegro as it seems to me that you have more pressing issues these days. :rofl:

Pedophiles to launch political party

AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Dutch pedophiles are launching a political party to push for a cut in the legal age for sexual relations to 12 from 16 and the legalization of child pornography and sex with animals,

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060530/od_nm/dutch_pedophiles_dc;_ylt=ArNt9.U2wNz7KHtWCeKKMxus0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3NW1oMDRpBHNlYwM3NTc-

[Slavic Enforcer]

If I were from the Netherlands I wouldnt be concerning myself too much with Serbia and Montenegro as it seems to me that you have more pressing issues these days. :rofl:

Good luck with "comrades" like saxonian knight, Serb.

[Rudolf_HeSS_88]

Netherland...

Ok if you hate Serbs you can kiss my SERBIAN ass.
Yes we are smaller now...but we dont have so many guys and muslims like your country.
So fuck off!

Cernobog

You are stupid like your friend from Netherland...
There is too many muslim scum in Montenegro...and you are one of them

[Watzy]

Ok if you hate Serbs you can kiss my SERBIAN ass.
Yes we are smaller now...but we dont have so many guys and muslims like
This is a joke. Serbia has the whole Muslim provinces: Sanjak, Kosovo...

so many guys
ROFL "guys" Learn to spell English properly you Serb retard! :rofl: If you polluted our language it doesn't mean you have to pollute other languages as well. :rolleyes:

[Rudolf_HeSS_88]

ROFL "guys" Learn to spell English properly you Serb retard!

Suck my d.... you dirty jewish slut.

[SSS]

Ja glasam da se odcepe plitvicka jezera od Makedonije a da se Turska pripoji Rusiji.

[6(sic)6]

Typical serbian debate...
They somehow always press in muslims and scum.
It always has to do with muslims, blame muslims for kosov, blame USA for attacking you, blame zog...:nopity:
You can't even have a debate without whining about kosova,Bosnia and Croatia.
Who is the jew anyways?:nuts:

And cut the BS with Bosnians and Albanians are non whites and Croatians are arabic people and shit like that.
That might work in Stormfront with other baby skins retards but not here.

[SSS]

Typical serbian debate...
They somehow always press in muslims and scum.
It always has to do with muslims, blame muslims for kosov, blame USA for attacking you, blame zog...:nopity:
You can't even have a debate without whining about kosova,Bosnia and Croatia.
Who is the jew anyways?:nuts:

And cut the BS with Bosnians and Albanians are non whites and Croatians are arabic people and shit like that.
That might work in Stormfront with other baby skins retards but not here.You are jew:nopity:

[Rudolf_HeSS_88]

6(sic)6

he is not jew he is just another Waurms on this forum...muslimfucker(jewish slut)...

[6(sic)6]

he is not jew he is just another Waurms on this forum...muslimfucker(jewish slut)...
You sure are one hell of a debater...:nuts:

[Aragorn]

God, what is wrong with Serbs here anyway?:bbbat: :bbbat:

No, I do not hate Serbs like, I just prefer Croats more, simply.

Secondly, why do Serbs becoming personal and hostile? Very friendly attitude here from the Serbs of Phora.:nuts: :nuts:

That in Holland is now a phedophile-party, what are Serbs are trying to say with that? Such party wont come in the parliament. Secondly, such small party are not worth any media attension. We have also party for animals, so, no big deal, not my concern:nopity: :nopity:

Yes, Netherlands have around 1 million muslems, however, al those are foreign, and we do not have provinces like sandsjak (Serb muslems) or Kosovo (Albanian Muslems). Muslems in Netherlands live across the nation, most of them in the bigger cities. They do not dominate any province by their religion and culture. Bigger problems, not for my Germanic nation. Serbia have bigger problems. A country that delivers its own countrymen to the war-tribunal of the Hague is a discrease of the entire Serbian people.

Montenegro has the right for independence, just like Croatia and Slovenia had previously that right. However, that right should not be allowed for Kosovo and Bosnia.

Serbs are denying facts. Facts that Croatia is a free nation now, and that Krajina is lost for Serb imperialism for ever. Same caunts for Montenegro. Personly, I prefer Kosovo under Serb controll. Serbs from Croatia and Bosnia can restlle there, so a greater croatia can exist from Dalmatic sea to Drina.

For the rest, Serbs, keep on hoping for your greater Serbia.:nuts: :nuts:

[Slavic Enforcer]

No, I do not hate Serbs like, I just prefer Croats more, simply.


Yeah, but only because of the Ustasas / NDH, right?

I don't want to speak for the Croats here (in their eyes I'm no real Croat anyway), but personally I don't want Nazis as allies.

I respect the attitude of people like Charles Martel, who have a feeling of solidarity towards Croats because they are Catholics and members of the same cultural area.
That's something different. Normal, in my opinion.

[VAMPIR]

Kakva logika u debate :rofl: potukao si ga :bbbat: :rofl:
Sta ces... probas lijepo, ne ide. Sta ti onda ostane nego da se odcijepis???:dance2:
Znas kako se kaze... E CANTU CONGOSCITUR AVIS, ili " Ptica se po pjevanju prepoznaje.
A za kulturu dijaloga ovog momka mozemo reci EPISTULA ENIM NON ERUBESCIT, ili "Papir ne crveni', tj. sve trpi. :whip:

[VAMPIR]

.... I guess after using Roman sayings in The Serb's eyes I became VATICAN SCUM AND JEWISH SLUT, Am I right???
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[VAMPIR]

Do 'debate' sa mongrilima mi je stalo kao do lanjskog snega.
What's your problem man? Or problems, better to say?
But, I forgive you, 'cause ERRARE HUMANUM EST. ERRANDO DISCIMUS.ili "Ludski je grijesiti. Grijeseci ucimo."
Ali, kao sto ti naslov posta govori, postoji i neka mjera sinak, znas?:whip:

[Aragorn]

Yeah, but only because of the Ustasas / NDH, right?

I don't want to speak for the Croats here (in their eyes I'm no real Croat anyway), but personally I don't want Nazis as allies.

I respect the attitude of people like Charles Martel, who have a feeling of solidarity towards Croats because they are Catholics and members of the same cultural area.
That's something different. Normal, in my opinion.


No, I have been in Croatia and that nation is the only Slavic nation that deserves my respect and gratitude. That Croatia was an allie of the German Reich during WWII has nothing to do with it. Besides, Serbs are truelly Balkan-people, compared with Croats and Slovenians aswell. Croats are more related to the western civilization, Serbs are oriented people, that explanes exactly why so many Serbs during Ottoman rule where converted to Islam.

I can not say, Abyss, if you are a true Croat or not, frankly I dont even care who or what you are. I consider you as a Jew, atleast a Jew-sucker and thats more then enough I need to know about creatures like you.

[Slavic Enforcer]

I consider you as a Jew, atleast a Jew-sucker and thats more then enough I need to know about creatures like you.

Coming from a degenerate like you this sounds like a compliment.

By the way, here a private message a non-Serbian member of this forum sent me:


This saxonian_Knight (clown) is infact a Croat who is playing a dirty ustasa game.


It seems somebody knows you better than I do.

[Aragorn]

Coming from a degenerate like you this sounds like a compliment.

By the way, here a private message a non-Serbian member of this forum sent me:



It seems somebody knows you better than I do.


Rubbish!!

Earlier at GDV I was in debat with Serbs because they considered Croats as non-whites, probably one of those suckers send you that message. Quite brave Serb do it behind my back.

They dont know me personly, I can asume you that. There is nothing Slavic in me, my family-tree is pure Germanic, dates back to the early 13th century. My ancestors are Dutch, German and one northern French (= Germanic).

My advice, Jewboy, dont believe everything you hear....

Iam not a Croate, but is it a crime, when a native Dutch as Iam prefer Croats above Serbs? Is it a crime, when I congruate Montenegro for its freedom?

Serbs are still the same imperialists as they where back in 1918. They have nothing learned. Their aim of a greater Serbia costs many lives, not only of those of Croats, but also among their own. Instead concentrating on remaining Serbia, the Phora-Serbs, ans Serbs from GDV, SF, e.t.c still cant stop continue attacking Croats, and now even Montenigrians. Serbs are just a joke:nopity: :nopity:

[Watzy]

I consider you as a Jew, atleast a Jew-sucker and thats more then enough I need to know about creatures like you.

Ken Abyss cheering to the Jewish persecutors of 92-year ww2 veteran Milivoj Asner. (http://thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3176&highlight=astner)

[Slavic Enforcer]

Rubbish!!

Earlier at GDV I was in debat with Serbs because they considered Croats as non-whites, probably one of those suckers send you that message. Quite brave Serb do it behind my back.

False. It was no Serb. :)

[Aragorn]

False. You would wonder what nationality the person has that did send me the message. :)

But no chance, I won't name him.


I wont give a shit who or what that person is. Iam not a croate, and frankly I think is is very low and sick to acuse members here on what they are not. There are no members at Phora I know personly, so your acusing is rubbish. Proof that Iam a croate:nuts: :nuts:

God, I dont even understand that language, I have visited Croatia once, and I consider Croats as allies and related to the western culture, and for these statements, now I must defend myself against your crap?:bbbat: :bbbat:

Exactly why I ask you once, Jewboy, what your presence at Phora is. Now you just perfectly explaned it.:thanks: :thanks:

[Slavic Enforcer]

Why are you so nervous if there's not a little bit truth on this?

[Aragorn]

Why are you so nervous if there's not a little bit truth on this?


Nervous for what?

I only dislike lies told about my person when someone probably need to use lies to win his debate.

At GDV I experience Serbs who where trying to convice non-Slavic members that Croats are non-whites, and because I stood up for Croats I was attacked. No problem, but lies against my person is something very weak, it says more about the person who use the lies who he realy is.

[Slavic Enforcer]

Ken Abyss cheering to the Jewish persecutors of 92-year ww2 veteran Milivoj Asner. (http://thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3176&highlight=astner)

Tko tebe uopce nesto pita? Idi i maltretiraj one preostale Srbe (starce) u tvom gradu, ludjak.

[Slavic Enforcer]

Nervous for what?

I only dislike lies told about my person when someone probably need to use lies to win his debate.

At GDV I experience Serbs who where trying to convice non-Slavic members that Croats are non-whites, and because I stood up for Croats I was attacked. No problem, but lies against my person is something very weak, it says more about the person who use the lies who he realy is.

I bet the man (my informer) knows about what he's talking.. :222:

[Aragorn]

I bet the man (my informer) knows about what he's talking.. :222:


your informer may tell many liers as he wish, and Iam not going to debate any more about it. It only proof my feelings toward Serbs more.

You may ask your Serb friend why he has not the balls himself to go in debate with me personly, instead using you for his game.

Iam not going making an endless debate with you, Ken Abyss. Your word against mine, an endless game of yes, no, yes,no, yes, no, yes, no.... Iam not into that.

Ask your self this question: Why do I call myself a pan-Germanist and using a germanic Avater? Why do I mainly post in the Dutch section. Have you have see me posting something in Croatian language? NO, as I dont understand that language. Do I post many in Serb and Croat section? Hardly!!

Go to GDV, Ken, and trace my post there. It is all anti-Serb, pan-Germanic, pro-German, Dietschland orientated, same at Skadi and NoFo.

For the rest, Ken Abyss, one advice for you and your Serb friends: ZAK MAAR LEKKER IN DE STRONT!!:bbbat:

[Martin Kuklinski]

Ken Abbys is everything but a Jew. I think he's half Croatian/half Serb. Correct me if I'm wrong, Ken.

And also, Ken. You gotta give it to Saxonian Knight though. 90% of the Dutch net-nazi's are pro-Serbian cocksuckers. They have this mirage that Serbia fought against the ZOG...oy vey! And they glorify everything what the Serbs are doing. They even posters of Milosevic in their bedrooms. Atleast SK doesn't consider the Serbs as hero's. Noone went out as hero in that war, me thinks.

And I can be SK's witness here, that SK is also anything but Slavic. This man was actually canned from stormfront for hating Polacks.

[Watzy]

I bet the man (my informer) knows about what he's talking.. :222:

Why dont you tell us more about your own ancestry? :D :naughty: ;)

Since you doubt Saxon's Germanic ancestry, hinting that he is a Croat himself only because he's pro-Croatian...is it possible your Serb origins (50%) motivates your hate toward Croatian nationalism?

[Slavic Enforcer]

Ask your self this question: Why do I call myself a pan-Germanist and using a germanic Avater?

To deflect from your real ancestry, maybe? :)

Why do I mainly post in the Dutch section. Have you have see me posting something in Croatian language? NO, as I dont understand that language. Do I post many in Serb and Croat section? Hardly!!

Well, you can still be of non-Dutch origin.
Maybe you have a complex because you are not able to speak your native language and that let's you be a Nazi? ;)
Such things are typical for the Nazi scene. Hitler was also not tall and blonde..

For the rest, Ken Abyss, one advice for you and your Serb friends: ZAK MAAR LEKKER IN DE STRONT!!:bbbat:

Wie du meinst.

:cool:

[dimitrije]

your informer may tell many liers as he wish, and Iam not going to debate any more about it. It only proof my feelings toward Serbs more.

You may ask your Serb friend why he has not the balls himself to go in debate with me personly, instead using you for his game.

Iam not going making an endless debate with you, Ken Abyss. Your word against mine, an endless game of yes, no, yes,no, yes, no, yes, no.... Iam not into that.

Ask your self this question: Why do I call myself a pan-Germanist and using a germanic Avater? Why do I mainly post in the Dutch section. Have you have see me posting something in Croatian language? NO, as I dont understand that language. Do I post many in Serb and Croat section? Hardly!!

Go to GDV, Ken, and trace my post there. It is all anti-Serb, pan-Germanic, pro-German, Dietschland orientated, same at Skadi and NoFo.I can see that most of your post are very anti-serb, can you explain why?
What do you have against Serbia?


: ZAK MAAR LEKKER IN DE STRONT!!:bbbatWhat mean this ?

[Martin Kuklinski]

I can see that most of your post are very anti-serb, can you explain why?
What do you have against Serbia?He doesn't believe in the fairytale about the greatness of Serbia. The only things you guys did was slaying off 7.000 unharmed muslims and bombing peasant villages. For the rest, Ken Abyss, one advice for you and your Serb friends:What mean this ?It means: EAT SHIT!

PS: no disrespect to smart and friendly people like Banat.

[dimitrije]

Why dont you tell us more about your own ancestry? :D :naughty: ;)

Since you doubt Saxon's Germanic ancestry, hinting that he is a Croat himself only because he's pro-Croatian...is it possible your Serb origins (50%) motivates your hate toward Croatian nationalism?t
I See that your point is that if some one don’t hate everything what is Serbian he must be anti-croatian, am I right?

[Slavic Enforcer]

Why dont you tell us more about your own ancestry? :D :naughty: ;)

You did it anyway.

Since you doubt Saxon's Germanic ancestry, hinting that he is a Croat himself only because he's pro-Croatian...is it possible your Serb origins (50%) motivates your hate toward Croatian nationalism?

Croatian nationalism is shit imo, just like Serbian nationalism.

We don't need this crap, the last war did prove it.

[dimitrije]

He doesn't believe in the fairytale about the greatness of Serbia. Medias made that fairytale about greatness Serbia we only wanted to live in our houses, to pray in our churches. That Territory were our for centuryes we did not want any thing what is not ours but we did not want to gave anything ours
The only things you guys did was slaying off 7.000 unharmed muslims and bombing peasant villages.
That crime never happened it is one of the lies, I can prove that. It seems to me that you watch TV to much, you are one of them who believe that holocaust really happened, are’t you ?


It means: EAT SHIT!Thanks for explanation

PS: no disrespect to smart and friendly people like Banat.So why are you disrespect me, did I do anything bad to you?

[Martin Kuklinski]

That crime never happened it is one of the lies, I can prove that. It seems to me that you watch TV to much, you are one of them who believe that holocaust really happened, are’t you ?The peace-corps Dutch Bat lied? All these former Dutch soldiers lied on national TV and acted their tears and crying? They havent witnessed the genocide of Balkanoid Muslims? Also, I'm not going to talk about the holocaust. I'm too damn scared to wind up in Spandua prison, Germany.So why are you disrespect me, did I do anything bad to you?I am not disrespecting you. I just respect Banat a lot. He often tend to think that I'm generalizing about Serbs.

[Slavic Enforcer]

Ken Abbys is everything but a Jew. I think he's half Croatian/half Serb. Correct me if I'm wrong, Ken.

You are right.

And also, Ken. You gotta give it to Saxonian Knight though. 90% of the Dutch net-nazi's are pro-Serbian cocksuckers. They have this mirage that Serbia fought against the ZOG...oy vey! And they glorify everything what the Serbs are doing. They even posters of Milosevic in their bedrooms. Atleast SK doesn't consider the Serbs as hero's.

Martin, believe me, I could care less about what anyone of them thinks.

Nazis (these dump people) are so easy to manipulate.. today they will cheer for Serbia, tomorrow for Croatia, then who knows for whom...
as long as there are war criminals they can support.

Noone went out as hero in that war, me thinks.

This is absolutely correct.

[Watzy]

The only things you guys did was slaying off 7.000 unharmed muslims and bombing peasant villages.

Does murdering Muslims provides some sort of moral justification to kill Christian Croats in the middle of their own ancestral country?

This is the sort of 'Muslims' they slew in Catholic Croatia:

http://www.iskon.hr/2004/10/28/0393007.17.jpg
Zagreb

And this is the sort of 'peasant villages' they bombed:

http://www.fenix-d-tours.com/slike02/osijek.jpg
Osijek

[Ace Rimmer]

Earlier at GDV I was in debat with Serbs because they considered Croats as non-whites, probably one of those suckers send you that message. Quite brave Serb do it behind my back.


At GDV I experience Serbs who where trying to convice non-Slavic members that Croats are non-whites, and because I stood up for Croats I was attacked.

Go to GDV, Ken, and trace my post there. It is all anti-Serb, pan-Germanic, pro-German, Dietschland orientated, same at Skadi and NoFo.

I can vouch for all quoted. ;)

:thanks:

[Slavic Enforcer]

If you allow, I would like to quote myself:



I don't want to speak for the Croats here (in their eyes I'm no real Croat anyway), but personally I don't want Nazis as allies.

I respect the attitude of people like Charles Martel, who have a feeling of solidarity towards Croats because they are Catholics and members of the same cultural area.
That's something different. Normal, in my opinion.

[dimitrije]

The peace-corps Dutch Bat lied? All these former Dutch soldiers lied on national TV and acted their tears and crying? They havent witnessed the genocide of Balkanoid Muslims? Also,


Of course he lied, I will try to explain to you but my English is very bad-I apologize if you don’t understand me
In that Serbian village of Srebrenica before war used to live 3900 people, mixed population. Part of them were muslim part of them were serbs/So how can be there 7000 victims?

Why your solider did not told you about Serbian victims ?We had biggest number of innocent victims, child and women. Why he did not told you how Naser Oric and his mujahedins killed and destroy over 20 serbian villages near Srebrenica. In ester of 1993. he killed couple of hundreds innocent children and women.

If you want I can give you movie ,,the truth’’ which will provide you real evidence about crimes against serbs, movie have English translation

[dimitrije]

Does murdering Muslims provides some sort of moral justification to kill Christian Croats in the middle of their own ancestral country?

This is the sort of 'Muslims' they slew in Catholic Croatia:

http://www.iskon.hr/2004/10/28/0393007.17.jpg
Zagreb

And
I respect this victims let them rest in peace but the world have also right to see Serbian victims
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1722/mddoc022ea.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2036/vukovar18jr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Watzy]

I don't want to speak for the Croats here (in their eyes I'm no real Croat anyway), but personally I don't want Nazis as allies.

You say you dont wish to speak for the Croats, but that's the only thing that you do these days.

You dont live in Croatia, and you do not even identify your self politically with Croat nation. So why dont you shut up and leave us alone. We dont need your Bolshevik advices. :bbbat:

[Watzy]

I respect this victims let them rest in peace but the world have also right to see Serbian victims
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1722/mddoc022ea.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2036/vukovar18jr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I respect these victims as well, but nothing tells me they are actually Serbian victims, or killed purposely by the Croats.

I noticed a lot of pictures of Croatian victims from Vukovar, Borovo, Škabrnja, Široka Kula ect. presented as Serbian on Serb propaganda pages on the Internet.

[Slavic Enforcer]

You say you dont wish to speak for the Croats, but that's the only thing that you do these days.

I speak for myself. I did emphasize it because I don't want to disturb the relations between you and your nazi friend(s).
I know that Croats have no easy life on Stormfront (because of the moderators there), and so I will tolerate it here.

You dont live in Croatia, and you do not even identify your self politically with Croat nation. So why dont you shut up and leave us alone. We dont need your Bolshevik advices. :bbbat:

I'm citizen of Croatia and I identify with the sane people there.

[dimitrije]

I respect these victims as well, but nothing tells me they are actually Serbian victims, or killed purposely by the Croats.

I noticed a lot of pictures of Croatian victims from Vukovar, Borovo, Škabrnja, Široka Kula ect. presented as Serbian on Serb propaganda pages on the Internet.
Trust me, I don’t need to lie about things like this
But if you don’t believe me I have many of others evidence about crimes against serbs and I know it

[Ace Rimmer]

Of course he lied, I will try to explain to you but my English is very bad-I apologize if you don’t understand me
In that Serbian village of Srebrenica before war used to live 3900 people, mixed population. Part of them were muslim part of them were serbs/So how can be there 7000 victims?

Srebrenica was filled with refugees from nearby towns and villages, who felt under Serbian control, thus the increased population of Srebrenica.

Why your solider did not told you about Serbian victims ?We had biggest number of innocent victims, child and women. Why he did not told you how Naser Oric and his mujahedins killed and destroy over 20 serbian villages near Srebrenica. In ester of 1993. he killed couple of hundreds innocent children and women.

1.)You did not have biggest number of victims.
2.)Naser Oric has been persecuted for his crimes in front of tribunal.

[dimitrije]

Srebrenica was filled with refugees from nearby towns and villages, who felt under Serbian control, thus the increased population of Srebrenica.Why and who bring them there? I will rather believe that santa claus really exist


1.)You did not have biggest number of victims.
O, yes we do! Tell me are you really believe that muslims have over 200000 of victims?
2.)Naser Oric has been persecuted for his crimes in front of tribunal.There is no justice in that court and I know that, Fatmir Ljimaj who killed on brutal way few hundreds of innocent people and rape 5 years old girl was convince on only 5 years. That’s how they will convince Naser Oric!

[VAMPIR]

Ok if you hate Serbs you can kiss my SERBIAN ass.
Yes we are smaller now...but we dont have so many guys and muslims like your country.
So fuck off!



You are stupid like your friend from Netherland...
There is too many muslim scum in Montenegro...and you are one of them
I am Ortodox Montenegrin. Am I offended you somehow???
I DID NOT offended you, so I expect THE SAME FROM YOU. Is that clear?
P.S If you search english word which means PEDER, that's GAY, not GUY. GUY means momak, djecak etc. Take a couple of lessons son, and then come on to share wisdom around. If I were you, I would leave, and probably never come back again. Just like any other paranoic freak.:rofl:

[Watzy]

I speak for myself. I did emphasize it because I don't want to disturb the relations between you and your nazi friend(s).
I dont have any 'nazi friends' (at this moment), and unlike you I dont identify my political orientation with any international ideology (except with anti-communism perhaps).

I know that Croats have no easy life on Stormfront (because of the moderators there), and so I will tolerate it here.
Long time ago I was upset about it, but now I'm glad we are not the part of that silly circus. Stormfront has nothing useful to offer to our youth, only our own nationalists of Starcevic's school can do that.

[Defensor Fidei]

Yes we are smaller now...but we dont have so many guys and muslims like your country.


SERBIA (without Kosova)

Bosniacs: 136,087
Muslims: 19,503
Albanians: 61,647
Roma: 108,193

:rofl: :222: :nopity: :222: :rofl:

[Ace Rimmer]

Why and who bring them there?

They were running away from Chetnik butchers.

I will rather believe that santa claus really exist

He does.

O, yes we do! Tell me are you really believe that muslims have over 200000 of victims?

>>>According to the ethnic structure of the victims, 63,687 Bosniak, i.e. Bosnian Muslims, lost their lives in that period, which made up the 67.87 percent of the total number of the casualties, 24,216 Serbs (25.81 percent) and 5,057 Croats (5.39 percent), according to a report which Mirsad Tokaca presented to reporters

>>>Of those victims, 30,514 were Bosniak civilians, 2,076 Croat civilians and 1,978 Serb civilians. On the other hand, 30,173 Bosniaks lost their lives serving in military units, 21,399 Serbs and 2,619 Croats. [link] (http://thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2385&highlight=survey)


There is no justice in that court and I know that, Fatmir Ljimaj who killed on brutal way few hundreds of innocent people and rape 5 years old girl was convince on only 5 years. That’s how they will convince Naser Oric!

You were before about how there is no persecution of crimes against the Serbs,
now when pointed out to it to you, even you came out with examples and cases,
to proceed on how it is not sufficient.
In the Hague tribunal, the conviction it self is most important, since it is political revisionist court.

[dimitrije]

That is absolutely false but I now I have to go on faculty , give me one day and I will find real evidence about victims in ex- Yugoslavia and I insure you that serbs are nation whit largest number of victims –including Kosovo of course

[Bajlozi]

I am Ortodox Montenegrin. Am I offended you somehow???
I DID NOT offended you, so I expect THE SAME FROM YOU. Is that clear?
P.S If you search english word which means PEDER, that's GAY, not GUY. GUY means momak, djecak etc. Take a couple of lessons son, and then come on to share wisdom around. If I were you, I would leave, and probably never come back again. Just like any other paranoic freak.:rofl:
You all are same sh... to me, no difference what so ever, i mean what is a serb anyway, an iranic tribe from Caucasus wich dispite its european location continues to spred orientalism and aziatik mentality throwout the Ballkans.
Why dont we make an aliance with those good old slavs, the ones who were creative and brilliant, the ones who gave the Ballkans Jasenovac.

Greetings!

[dimitrije]

You all are same sh... to me, no difference what so ever, i mean what is a serb anyway, an iranic tribe from Caucasus wich dispite its european location continues to spred orientalism and aziatik mentality throwout the Ballkans.
Why dont we make an aliance with those good old slavs, the ones who were creative and brilliant, the ones who gave the Ballkans Jasenovac.

Greetings!
Did your father told you this while he was washing you ass whit bottle of water?
Why don’t you explain to this people what Albanians do after toilet?
Then will people realize who are really you, tell us what is the main way of making profit for your kind


@cernobog
o ovome ti pricam brate za njih nema mi i vi kao sto ti mislis!

[The Serb]

Rubbish!!

They dont know me personly, I can asume you that. There is nothing Slavic in me, my family-tree is pure Germanic, dates back to the early 13th century. My ancestors are Dutch, German and one northern French (= Germanic).

My advice, Jewboy, dont believe everything you hear....

Iam not a Croate, but is it a crime, when a native Dutch as Iam prefer Croats above Serbs? Is it a crime, when I congruate Montenegro for its freedom?

Serbs are still the same imperialists as they where back in 1918. They have nothing learned. Their aim of a greater Serbia costs many lives, not only of those of Croats, but also among their own. Instead concentrating on remaining Serbia, the Phora-Serbs, ans Serbs from GDV, SF, e.t.c still cant stop continue attacking Croats, and now even Montenigrians. Serbs are just a joke:nopity: :nopity:

Most Dutch people I have had contact with in the past have had a firm grasp of the English language so it should come as no surprise that upon seeing your semi literate crap here we may have some doubts as to your true origin. I am of the firm belief that you difinitely have some sort of connection to the former Yugoslavia, either you are part croat or your girlfriend/wife is of croatian, shiptar or Bosnian muslim descent. Why a true Dutchman would interest himself so much in a conflict which bears no relevance to Holland and rabidly take the side of ZOG is truly perplexing. Most true Dutch comrades that I have been in contact with over the years have been anything but anti Serbian {quite the contrary} and most certainly did not lament over the fate of filthy Bosnian muslim and shiptar terrorists.

[The Serb]

Claiming the Black Mountain

by Nebojsa Malic
Montenegro's Separatists Win

After seven years of frustrated attempts, the separatist regime in Montenegro celebrated victory Sunday night, as it managed to drum up the 55.5 percent of the votes necessary to win the independence referendum. What would be a landslide in any Western election was actually the narrowest of margins in Montenegro, as the acceptable threshold set by the Brussels bureaucrats was 55 percent. It took weeks of pro-independence propaganda in government-monopolized media, multi-million-euro public works timed for the referendum, shady political deals with ethnic minorities, and voter shenanigans to secure that .5 percent margin between victory and defeat. And though the unionist parties are demanding a recount and complaining about irregularities, Milo Djukanovic and his separatists have already declared victory – and more importantly, just about everyone, including Belgrade, has accepted it as fact.

The outcome caused outpourings of joy at the International Crisis Group, among the Kosovo Albanians, and in the ranks of Serbophobic media. Their eagerness to celebrate the "demise of Greater Serbia" suggests that external support for Montenegrin separatism was never about Montenegro at all. What happens to the rocky republic next will be of little interest to its erstwhile partisans, as they continue to redraw Balkans maps to match those of 1941.

Democracy in Action

It has been said that it doesn't matter who votes as much as who counts the votes. In Montenegro this weekend, what mattered was who counted the voters. In the run-up to the referendum, tens of thousands of "Montenegrins" living abroad were registered to vote, while hundreds of thousands who lived in Serbia were denied that right. While separatists complained that because of the 55 percent rule, their vote was worth only 0.82 percent of "a Serb's" (meaning a unionist's), it was people like Began Cekic, "a demolition expert from Brooklyn," who decided the outcome of the plebiscite.

Writes Nicholas Wood of the New York Times:

"Figures from the border police suggest that Montenegro's diaspora had a decisive role in passing the referendum. Some 16,000 Montenegrins from abroad returned in the three days before the election, a number equal to 3 percent of the total voter turnout."

While people like Cekic, "an ethnic Albanian," flew in to support the separatists, none of the 350,000-plus Montenegrins living in Serbia were allowed to vote. Most of them consider themselves ethnic Serbs, much as those in Montenegro who voted against secession. But the Djukanovic regime has systematically denied Montenegro's Serb identity, establishing a separate "Academy of sciences," a separate church, a separate language, even inventing a separate history.

Alexis de Tocqueville once warned that a democracy could easily become a mere "tyranny of the majority." The great irony of Montenegro's May 21 plebiscite is that the "majority" that won was actually an alliance of minorities – the ideological and pragmatic separatists among the Montenegrin Serbs, ethnic Albanians, Croats, and Muslims, who together outnumbered the plurality of Serb unionists.

The Gloating Begins

While news of Montenegro's secession generally merited a short wire report in most American papers, the media establishment with vested interests in the "Bank of Collective Serbian Guilt" (Deliso) reacted to the outcome with ebullience and gloating.

The staff correspondent of New York's Newsday told his readers how Sunday night's referendum was a defeat for "every Serb who ever yearned to expand Serbia's territory" and "a dream of a land called Greater Serbia." Insisting that the 1990s wars were motivated by this mythical conspiracy – something even the Hague Inquisition has abandoned, due to complete inability to fabricate even halfway credible evidence – the Newsday correspondent explains that:

"The hope of the United States, the European Union, and the international community at large is that Serbia will accept its modest new status as a landlocked country of under 10 million people, give up its expansionist, nationalist impulses, and embrace the West."

This sort of rhetoric is parroted by The Guardian's Ian Traynor, who opined that the loss of Montenegro, and the likely loss of Kosovo to follow, "may be just the tonic Serbia needs to divest itself of a disastrous 15 years and a nationalism that has brought nothing but grief." Continues Traynor, "[C]ertainly, the cream of Belgrade's liberal and democratic class is happy that an independent Montenegro also means, finally, an independent Serbia that can get on with rebuilding itself."

The "cream" he is referring to are people like Sonja Biserko, who told the LA Times that Montenegro's secession "marked the end of Serbia's 'imperial ambitions.'" There's something incongruous about Biserko, the leading supporter of the Empire, talking about some supposed Serbian imperialism. In her Serbophobic crusade, she has supported the NATO bombing and advocated the occupation and forced "reeducation" of Serbia. That's some "human rights" record, indeed.

One of Biserko's detractors once asked the rhetorical question: How small would Serbia have to be for them to no longer consider it "imperialist" and "aggressive"? The answer he postulated, based on the Jacobin language of Biserko and the rest of the "liberal and democratic class," was, "Never small enough."

Taking a Cue

Albanian separatists in the occupied province of Kosovo have cheered Sunday's results the loudest.

Alex Anderson of the International Crisis Group, which has championed Montenegrin and Albanian separatism, did not hide his pleasure at the outcome of Sunday's plebiscite, commenting that "there's an expectation of domino-effect" in Kosovo now.

"Before the end of the year, Kosovo, too, will join Montenegro as a new state, and these new countries will be an important factor for stability of the whole region," said the Albanian "prime minister" of Kosovo, Agim Ceku.

A commentator named Dukagjin Gorani distilled the Albanian argument thus: if 650,000 residents of Montenegro have the right to independence, why wouldn't the 2 million Albanians in Kosovo? One could respond that Montenegro was a "republic" in the old Yugoslavia, and that according to the EU's own ruling from 1991 only "republics" had the right to self-determination and secession, not provinces or peoples. That was certainly the argument used against the separatist movements of Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina. But the Abramowitz Doctrine clearly rejects the application of principles to the Balkans. Arguments rejected out of hand when they came from 2 million Serbs are now widely recognized as valid when coming from 2 million Albanians. It's all in who does the rejecting and the recognizing, you see.

Acceptance

Reactions in Belgrade have been a mixture of shock, disbelief, sorrow, and satisfaction. The expression most wire services used was "grudging acceptance." By Tuesday afternoon, Serbian President Boris Tadic – now de facto a full head of state – publicly announced Serbia's acceptance of the plebiscite results. It isn't quite clear whether he had the authority to do so, but the notoriously blurry lines of authority in Serbia have just become even more fluid.

To many in Serbia, Montenegro's separation comes as a relief, after almost nine years of incessant provocations and tension-building by the separatists. Admittedly, the sundering will abolish the costly and useless union government, for years almost entirely funded by Serbian taxpayers. According to the charter negotiated in 2002, Serbia will automatically succeed to all international memberships, treaties, and charters, while Montenegro will have to start from scratch. Abolition of the Union will have another consequence – the independence of Serbia from Javier Solana, the man who presided over Serbia's 1999 bombing, and who was instrumental in creating the Union charter.

And yet, Montenegro's departure comes as a body blow to the Serb national conscience. Quite the contrary from Imperial claims of "Greater Serbia," the prevailing view in Serbia itself has for decades been the Communist-induced provincialism, which regarded their close relatives in Croatia, Bosnia, and Macedonia as somehow different and alien. Montenegro, however, had always been regarded as more quintessentially Serb than Serbia itself. Throughout the 19th century, Austria-Hungary did its best to keep Serbia and Montenegro apart, finally failing in 1913. After the Great War, Montenegro was annexed by the Kingdom of Serbia, something the tactless Serbian monarch handled about as gracefully as the creation of Yugoslavia.

Even so, it was not until the Italian occupation of 1941-45 and the subsequent Communist creation of the "People's Republic of Montenegro" that the idea emerged of a "Montenegrin" ethnic identity as distinctly separate from Serb. Djukanovic's brand of separatism did not appeal to freedom from "Milosevic's tyranny" or notions of regional autonomy – it rooted itself firmly in this anti-Serb concept of Montenegrin nationality. When even the proudest Serbs go as far to deny their Serb heritage… what does it mean anymore? This is the sort of question the foreign backers of Montenegrin independence wanted asked, for the explicit purpose of forcing Serbia to "accept its modest new status" and "embrace the West." (Newsday)

The loss of compass in Belgrade is perhaps best described by Monday's call from Vuk Draskovic, soon-to-be-former foreign minister of the now defunct Union, to reestablish monarchy in Serbia. While a great idea in principle, Draskovic chose to justify it as "a shortcut to full membership in EU and NATO."

What's Next?

The true consequences of Montenegro's separation remain to be seen. Serbia obviously has a lot of soul-searching to do, even as it is facing enormous pressure to surrender Kosovo. In the rocky republic itself, life after secession does not look to be all milk and honey, as the separatists promised their electorate. For years, Montenegro has lived on U.S. foreign aid, while Serbia subsidized its share of government expenses and foreign debt. Now that it can no longer be used as a leverage against Belgrade, Podgorica may find its American sugar daddy inexplicably AWOL. Moreover, its rulers now owe favors to Croats, Albanians, and Muslims from the north – favors they may have to repay with special privileges, maybe even territory.

For years, Milo Djukanovic wanted to be president of an independent state. Now he has his wish, and may well live to regret it, as flags, marches, and hymns give way to grim realities he can no longer blame on Belgrade.



http://www.antiwar.com/malic/?articleid=9026

[Ace Rimmer]

@The Serb.

Morat ces ohladit od licnih uvreda. Zuti karton. :)

[Aragorn]

Most Dutch people I have had contact with in the past have had a firm grasp of the English language so it should come as no surprise that upon seeing your semi literate crap here we may have some doubts as to your true origin. I am of the firm belief that you difinitely have some sort of connection to the former Yugoslavia, either you are part croat or your girlfriend/wife is of croatian, shiptar or Bosnian muslim descent. Why a true Dutchman would interest himself so much in a conflict which bears no relevance to Holland and rabidly take the side of ZOG is truly perplexing. Most true Dutch comrades that I have been in contact with over the years have been anything but anti Serbian {quite the contrary} and most certainly did not lament over the fate of filthy Bosnian muslim and shiptar terrorists.


This is truelly a joke:p :p

English is not my native language, so what is your problem that I dont write it 100% correctly?

Iam married, yes, and certeinly not with a Muslim, not a Bosniak, not a Albanian. My blood is pure, and thats why I wont mix it with the inferieur. My two children are truelly nordic Germanics.

I will tell you why Iam interest in Croatia. I have visited it, and according to my views of political, cultural, ideologically, Croatia is connected with western Europe. It has nothing to do with your doubts about my origin. Is it so suprising for Serbs that a non-Croat can be pro-Croate and feel warm feelings and intensions for that nation? Dont get me wrong, what Serbs did against Bosniaks and Albanians, I dont care less. Iam anti-Muslim, and I would only support Serb attemps to clean Srpska, Kosovo, even the Sandzak-area free of muslims. By all means, clean it, like you never did before. But take your hands of Croatia and its noble population. You have no right on Krajina, Slavonia.... Croatia was a true allie of national-socialist Germany, and besides that, I support secession of other nations. Scotland free of British rule, I would support it, does that make me a England-hater? NO! You freaky Serbs think and believe that I hate Serbs, which I dont. A independant Catalunya? By all means:) Does that make me a Spanish-hater? I dont think so... I just respect the right of other nationalities to create and rule their own nations, free of foreign rule. Croatia has the right to be free of Serb domination like other nations has that right. Except for muslims ofcourse. Anyway, I dont give a shit that other Dutch nationalists are pro-Serb. I devolp my own opinion, and I feel just more for Croats, simply. If you Serbs believe because of that statement, I hate Serbs, well, simply, your problem, not mine. Doubt as much you wish about my origin. Not my problem.

[Watzy]

I will tell you why Iam interest in Croatia. I have visited it
I hope you enjoyed your visit. Which towns have you visited? My parents visited Netherlands once and were amazed the arts of the Northern Renaissance. :)

Scotland free of British rule, I would support it, does that make me a England-hater? NO! You freaky Serbs think and believe that I hate Serbs, which I don't. A independent Catalunya? By all means:) Does that make me a Spanish-hater? I dont think so...
My thoughts concerning ethnic questions in Europe are based on exactly the same principle. It's a pity not many people reason like this.

[Aragorn]

I hope you enjoyed your visit. Which towns have you visited? My parents visited Netherlands once and were amazed the arts of the Northern Renaissance. :)


My thoughts concerning ethnic questions in Europe are based on exactly the same principle. It's a pity not many people reason like this.


I have visited the Istria-region, more exact Porec, Rovinj and Pula. Iam planning for next year to visit Zagreb, atleast if nothing will come in between.


That you think like me and Serbs have a lack on it, is because Croatia is part of the same cultural and spiritual level as Western Europe. Serbs are on that point behind with us, they are not devolped like true civilizations, like true populations and cultures. They are still barbarians, to use this naughty word:p :p

Serb claims on Krajina, Slavonia and Croatian populated areas of Bosnia-Herzegovina are just a attempt of renew Serbian imperialism. I hope Serbs one day will be able to understand that every population has the right to determine their own future. Croats are Croats, and therefore they have the right to have their own state, same caunts for Montenegro, Slovenia, Macedonia, Scotland, Catalunya, even if the Frisians in Holland one day would ask for that right, who are we to denie that?

Personly I support the idea of a Germanic federation, as a alternative of the Jewish puppetshow E.U, but that my own personal view.

[Slavic Enforcer]

Weaken through division..

Your Germanic federation (Großgermanisches Reich) would have an easy game in the Europe you imagine.

[Watzy]

I have visited the Istria-region, more exact Porec, Rovinj and Pula. Iam planning for next year to visit Zagreb, atleast if nothing will come in between.

Istria is and Zagorje (North of Zagreb) were the only provinces fortunate enough to develop in complete peace. If you visit Zagreb I recommend you to pass threw Zagorje. This region is fuilled with medieval castles.

That you think like me and Serbs have a lack on it, is because Croatia is part of the same cultural and spiritual level as Western Europe

Years of Communism and Balkanism left a mark on our mentality. Croatia 2006. is not the same country as it was 1918. or even 1945. Still, I am the optimist, and hope the ways of the mentality and tastes of future generatios raised in independence shall resemble more to the mentality of our ancestors as it was before 20th century. I dont have high illusions about the present state of our society, but I refuse to identify the culture of my people with Balkanism. Balkan ways are disgusting and the people of true Balkan mentality have no sense of discipline, duty, responsibility, public order, respect for the public goods, cultural heretage ect.

Serbs are on that point behind with us, they are not devolped like true civilizations, like true populations and cultures. They are still barbarians, to use this naughty word:p :p
Serb society for the most part developed in different historic circumstances. They jumped directlly from the Dark Ages into the industrial era.

Serb claims on Krajina, Slavonia and Croatian populated areas of Bosnia-Herzegovina are just a attempt of renew Serbian imperialism.
The effect of the Ottoman invasion shaped our borders as a fragile crescent with 'Krajina' in the middle. Once you split Dalmatia and Slavonia from the Capital it's all finnished. What other intention did the Serb rebelion had but to split the country in half and finish what the Turks attempted once.

[Watzy]

Weaken through division..

Your Germanic federation (Großgermanisches Reich) would have an easy game in the Europe you imagine.

I dont see anything wrong if peoples of simmilar descendage, language and culture voluntarelly decide to cooperate on internal benefits. So why not having pan-Germanic union of states in Europe?

Personally I dont advocate the entrance of my country into any sort of pan-Slavic federal state, but I would supported the initiative of gathering Hungary, Croatia, Slovenia, Czech Republic, Slovakia and eventually Austria into some sort of confederation of souvereign and independent states of central Europe, based upon free will and traditional ties.

[The Serb]

Serb claims on Krajina, Slavonia and Croatian populated areas of Bosnia-Herzegovina are just a attempt of renew Serbian imperialism. I hope Serbs one day will be able to understand that every population has the right to determine their own future. Croats are Croats, and therefore they have the right to have their own state, same caunts for Montenegro, Slovenia, Macedonia, Scotland, Catalunya, even if the Frisians in Holland one day would ask for that right, who are we to denie that?
.

I will take you at your word then and refrain from questioning or doubting your Dutch ancestry in the future.

Now to the heart of the issue,
Serbs DO NOT claim croat populated areas of Bosnia and Slavonia {never have and never will}. As you say every population has the right to determine their own future and to live in their own state however we cant accept Tito's communist created AVNOJ borders as something sacred.

You also need to look at it from this perspective,
a strong and centralized serbia is in the interests of the croatian people as well as Europe as a whole and this is why:

Which ever way you choose to look at it the current geopolitical situation is not in Croatia's favour. The Balkans and SE Europe require a strong centralized Serbian state. If you look at the map of our part of Europe you will see that we are very close to Asia and 80 million turks who are eagerly awaiting to enter Europe. Across the Mediterranean we also have Africa and their muslims waiting to flood Europe, we also have two ZOG produced cancerous growths within Europe {muslims in Serb/Croat Bosnia, Kosovo,FYROM and Albania}.

A small, weak, insignificant croatia and a dismembered isolated Serbia cannot act as a bulwark against a threat of such magnitude. However a strong and powerful Serbia could save Croatia and the coma induced western Europeans from the expanding Islamic threat.
Even a so called 'greater croatia' could not possibly carry out such a mission because they are not as numerous as Serbs, they inhabit a smaller territory geographically and because of their narrow yet perennial anti Serb aspirations they would have no choice but to once again align with the anti Serb muslim enemy of Europe. Croatia is also too far away so they would not be able to come to the aid of countries like Romania Bulgaria or Greece when they are threatened with Islamic expansion.

Now of course there should be some compromise in order for there to be a viable and compact Croat state, some territorial and population exchange would be required however 70% of Bosnia would have to rejoin Serbia as it is historic Serbian land while the muslims would be shipped to turkey and 'their' territory given to Serbs and Croats. The albanian shiptar 'state' would also be erased as would the artificial Bolshevik construct of FYROM.

Only when we finally deal with the ZOG created festering, unresolved mess in SE Europe will we have any hope for a whiter and brighter future as Europeans free of Islam,Asians and Africans.

[The Serb]

@The Serb.

Morat ces ohladit od licnih uvreda. Zuti karton. :)

I dont know what you are talking about :confused:

[The Serb]

because Croatia is part of the same cultural and spiritual level as Western Europe. Serbs are on that point behind with us, they are not devolped like true civilizations, like true populations and cultures. They are still barbarians, to use this naughty word:p :p
.

Yeah I would really love to be part of that croatian 'culture and spirit', you can find such primitive genocidal bestiality in the darkest corners of Africa. :(
I thank god every day that I dont belong to such a 'cultured' people.

http://koz.vianet.ca/head.gif

http://compuserb.com/croatia/ustashe5.jpg

[Slavic Enforcer]

The Party behind the Ustasas didn't even get 5% (!) on elections, so I wouldn't say that the nazi-ass-licking Ustasa motherfuckers were representative of the Croatian people.

[Watzy]

Yeah I would really love to be part of that croatian 'culture and spirit', you can find such primitive genocidal bestiality in the darkest corners of Africa. :(

Decapitation has been used as a form of capital punishment in Europe for millennia. The dead Chetnik earned it. :)

[Ace Rimmer]

I dont know what you are talking about :confused:

Are you insane or just playing ass?



shiptar troll

ovaj smrad

majmune jedan smrdljivi

ti si obican sljam i olos

Jebali te Broz i Milo u dupe smrdljivo lojavo!

semi literate crap



To je samo iz ovoga threada, žuti karton i dalje vrijedi. :thanks:

[Defensor Fidei]

Decapitation has been used as a form of capital punishment in Europe for millennia. The dead Chetnik earned it. :)

"All criminals should be executed by decapitation"

Dr. Joseph-Ignace Guillotin

[dimitrije]

"All criminals should be executed by decapitation"

Dr. Joseph-Ignace Guillotin
That man as a matter of fact did not have any connection whit croatia, he was just passing by. He was on the way to Europe, running from communist. I really cannot understand why ustashi attacked him, but then again that is yours butchers way of thinking

Btw where is our moderator Banat, he should be react on this.
This is Serbian section not Croatian, this is not place for yours butchers fantasy.

[The Serb]

Are you insane or just playing ass?

To je samo iz ovoga threada, žuti karton i dalje vrijedi. :thanks:

Since when were you appointed mod of the serb section? :confused:

[Ace Rimmer]

Since when were you appointed mod of the serb section? :confused:

So now you question my decisions which are in accordance to rules you already violated several times,
of which you are aware even yourself?
To answer you, since I am Super moderator I am mod of all subsections,
so obey the rules or take a hike.

@dimitrije
prijavi post na report button http://thephora.net/forum/images/buttons/report.gif koji se nalazi kraj svakog posta ako misliš da su pravila prekršena,
osim mene i Banata tu je još desetak ljudi koji rješavaju takve stvari.

[VAMPIR]

Zlatna telad i lažni proroci


Jednom sam, ima tome mislim tri ljeta, vracajuci se iz Bara, umalo zgazio crnog macora. Vozio sam nekih osamdeset na sat, kada sam vidio macana kako samodovoljno, kako to samo macke umiju, pretrcava put. Imao je dovoljno vremena da pretrci, procijenio sam, zato nisam smanjivao brzinu. Ali macor se iz nekog razloga naglo okrenuo i pokušao se vratiti na plocnik sa kojega je istrcao na asfalt. Onda je, bice, shvatio da u tome nece uspjeti. Stisnuo sam kocnicu i gledao kako macor trci desno, pa ponovo lijevo, kako u panici poskakuje na mjestu, ne znajuci kamo da se skloni, i kako napokon, pred kolima koja uz škripu guma klize ka njemu i donose mu smrt, sjeda na asfalt, širi noge i pocinje da liže vlastita muda, kao da u tom trenutku, dvije sekunde pred smrt, nema niceg važnijeg na ovom svijetu što bi imao obaviti. Kola su se zaustavila tik ispred njega. Dok sam psovao macju narcisoidnost, vidio sam ga kako nestaje u žbunju, živ i cist, svježe polizan.
Sve vam ovo pricam jer mi ponašanje Srbije, tamošnje javnosti, ako hocete, nakon odlaska Crne Gore i konacnog sloma projekta velike Srbije, lici na ponašanje tog crnog macora.
Beogradskim medijima i Vladi Vojislava Koštunice tu od pocetka nešto nije bilo jasno. Naslovi poput „Srbija bez Crne Gore?” sa naglaskom na upitnik redali su se u danima nakon referenduma, u kojima je jedna po jedna relevantna medunarodna institucija potvrdivala pobjedu suverenista i demokraticnost i valjanost referenduma.
Jedna te ista prica, ispricana na više nacina. Nešto kao beogradski Rašomon: od vulgarnih manifestacija fašizma u Kuriru i Nacionalu, do jadikovki propale imperije u pokušaju kakve nalazimo u NIN-u, mediju koji artikuliše pogled na svijet Vlade Vojislava Koštunice. Izmedu, a zapravo kao rezultat svega toga, mržnja na sportskim terenima, mržnja tako snažna da dehumanizuje onoga koji mrzi, do mjere u kojoj skandiranje publike na košarkaškom mecu Partizan – Buducnost lici, ako to možete zamisliti, na ono što bi skandiralo pet hiljada serijskih ubica zatocenih u supersigurni zatvor – onaj u kojem nema zidova i žica, i gdje zatoceništvo garantuje cinjenica da zatocenici nisu svjesni cinjenice da su lišeni slobode.
„Šiptarsku decu na kolac”, skandirala je beogradska publika te veceri. Tu se povlaci crta. Tu više nema prostora za fenomenološke rasprave, nema prostora za eticke, etnicke i mentalitetske analize. Naša obaveza pred tim prizorom nije da kažemo „Mi smo eticko Drugo”, kao što se etickim razlikama ne može objasniti ni holokaust. Crta nije položena u prostor etickog, nego u prostor ontološkog. TO što je skandiralo „Šiptarsku decu na kolac” je ontološko Drugo; ljudi smo zato što nismo TO.
Fundamentalni razlog za crnogorsku nezavisnost je bio ontološki – sva gnusoba beogradske reakcije na nezavisnost svjedoci o tome. Fundamentalni, pak, problem Srbije je što je dozvolila da se TO predstavlja kao autenticno srpstvo, što nema snage da napravi distancu u odnosu na TO, koje etiketira „izdajnike”, ubija Premijere i suštinski vodi unionisticke kampanje u Crnoj Gori. Kada se TO politicko-kartografski artikuliše, dobijete Veliku Srbiju, genocid, stotine hiljada mrtvih i raseljenih. Miro Glavurtic je jednom primijetio da nešto što proizvodi toliku nesrecu i ljudske žrtve ne može biti drugo nego – zlo.
Otud beogradski mediji prave suštinsku grešku – crnogorska nezavisnost nije gubitak Srbije, nego velike Srbije. Erupcija radosti u Podgorici, u noci referenduma, kojoj se i dalje cude u Beogradu („Zašto nas toliko mrze? Kakva smo to braca kada se toliko vesele što se rastajemo?” pita se NIN) desila se ne zbog crnogorskog rastanka sa Srbijom, nego zato što je sa vrata Crne Gore skinuta cizma velike Srbije. Srboljub Brankovic, kolumnista NIN-a, piše kako su se Slovenci, Hrvati i „Muslimani iz Bosne”, kako on zove Bošnjake, radovali „srpskom porazu”. Naravno: nije poražena Srbija, nego Velika Srbija, koja je velikim dobrom zadužila i Vukovar i Sarajevo, i Hrvate i „Muslimane iz Bosne”. NIN to ne vidi, ali: najvecu korist od crnogorske nezavisnosti ima Srbija, ukoliko ovu priliku iskoristi da upokoji svoj imperijalni projekat, koji bezuspješno pokušava da ostvari vec citav vijek.
Tijaniceva RTS organizovala je emisije u kojima su Miloševicevi saucesnici u zlocinu obrazlagali svoje videnje crnogorske samostalnosti. Kao po obicaju, najglasniji je bio radikal Aleksandar Vucic. Covjek tako mlad, a vec je izgubio tri rata. I ništa iz svega toga nije naucio. Adolf Hitler je tvrdio da je najgore što covjek može uciniti za svoj narod – to da izgubi rat. Možda je gore da ga uopšte – zapocne? Ali sa zlom fašizma nema dijaloga. Ta vrsta zla, buduci da nije metafizicka, nego vrlo fizicka, se pobjeduje, ili u suprotnom vas zatre.
NIN i dalje sanja imperijalne snove: „Da ne pominjemo ovom prilikom one koji bi bili srecni da nam se PRIPOJE (ne pridruže, nego pripoje op. A.N.), kada bi samo imali tu šansu”. Tirnanic u istoj novini najavljuje ustanak u Crnoj Gori na 13. jul. Nebojša Jevric ovako izvještava iz Crne Gore: „Ako cetinjski manastir može da poseduje ruku svetog Jovana, zašto Crnogorska pravoslavna crkva ne bi mogla da poseduje nogu Svetog Josipa Radnika, koji se slavi prvog maja po gregorijanskom kalendaru”. Isti autor citira Ranka Jovovica koji o Crnoj Gori i Crnogorcima kaže: „Ovo je poslednje Brozovo smece”. „Video sam babu koju su jedva doneli da glasa. U dimijama. I bilo mi je jasno. Odmah mi je sve bilo jasno”, piše ovaj novinarski pas rata.
Tu je naravno i Matija Beckovic, sa još jednom idiotskom floskulom lansiranom za potrebe lakšeg prihvatanja „caše bratske žuci”, kako je doživljena crnogorska nezavisnost. NIN na naslovnoj strani donosi Beckovicev iskaz: „Suverenost na koncu od pola promila”. Sad: 0,5 odsto nije pola promila, nego pola procenta. I nije konac od pola procenta, nego mornarsko uže od 11 posto razlike. Beckovicev superkomicni mesijanski kompleks ponovo dolazi do izražaja. Iako je koji dan pred referendum, na unionistickom mitnigu u Podgorici pogrešno prorekao da se Crna Gora nece otcepiti, jer nikome nije pošlo za rukom da je odvoji od Srbije, neuspješni prorok Beckovic se u NIN-u ponovo poziva na svoje prorocke sposobnosti.
Pjesnik koji govori iz debelog crijeva cijelog naroda, autor prorocanstva da ce Crnogorci nestati prije njegove smrti, veli: „U svakom slucaju, obistinjuju se moji stihovi: Umrla je stara Crna Gora/I bez nje se muce Crnogorci/A nikako da i oni pomru/Umrijece no ce prije toga/Sebe i nju mrtvu obrukati”. Beckovic je zlatno tele Velike Srbije, njen lažni prorok – kada ce Srbija to shvatiti, i kamo ce stici slijedeci lažne proroke, nije više problem Crne Gore.

Balsa Brkovic, kolumnista Vijesti

[dimitrije]

Tekst je napisan u anti-srpskom duhu kao i anti-crnogorskom,vecita igra pretvaranja zla kao dobro.Spominje se nekakav projekat velike Srbije,znamo svi dobro ko je zapoceo rat i koje imao projetkat velike Htvatske koje je hteo stvarati veliku muslimansku zemlju.Prosto neverujem da se crnogorac poput tebe edukuje pomocu ovih stvari polako postajes crveni hrvat.Spominje se nakav fasizam klasinca prica onih koji su te stvorili kao crnogorca,fasizam je bio pokret u Italiji koji je ubio manje ljudi nego oni koji su crnogorske cetnike slali u smrt samo zato sto su bili srbi ako si cuo za akciju ,,pogresno skretanje''onda znas o cemu pricam.
Tom autoru smeta srpski revansizam prema siptarskoj gamadi a ne smeta mu sto je oteta srpska zemlja,naravno ne zauvek.Ne smetaju mu srpski lesevi,mrtva srpska deca ali mu smeta poziv na ubijanje gamadi.Daboga mu se seme zatrovalo u ime svakog srpskog siroceta.

[VAMPIR]

Tekst je napisan u anti-srpskom duhu kao i anti-crnogorskom,vecita igra pretvaranja zla kao dobro.Spominje se nekakav projekat velike Srbije,znamo svi dobro ko je zapoceo rat i koje imao projetkat velike Htvatske koje je hteo stvarati veliku muslimansku zemlju.Prosto neverujem da se crnogorac poput tebe edukuje pomocu ovih stvari polako postajes crveni hrvat.Spominje se nakav fasizam klasinca prica onih koji su te stvorili kao crnogorca,fasizam je bio pokret u Italiji koji je ubio manje ljudi nego oni koji su crnogorske cetnike slali u smrt samo zato sto su bili srbi ako si cuo za akciju ,,pogresno skretanje''onda znas o cemu pricam.
Tom autoru smeta srpski revansizam prema siptarskoj gamadi a ne smeta mu sto je oteta srpska zemlja,naravno ne zauvek.Ne smetaju mu srpski lesevi,mrtva srpska deca ali mu smeta poziv na ubijanje gamadi.Daboga mu se seme zatrovalo u ime svakog srpskog siroceta.
Zaista nema potrebe posmatrati Crnogorce na taj nacin, ili ste Srbi, ili Hrvati ili... Zar se to moze svesti na crno-bijelo? Konstantno negiranje crnogorskog identiteta je i dovelo do nezavisnosti CG.
Sto se teksta tice, nikako se ne slazem sa tim da je pisan na anti-srpskoj osnovi. Naprotiv. Kada bi Srbija htjela da shvati sta su njeni stvarni prioriteti, i zvanicno bi mislila ovako. Uostalom, ajde navedi mi jednog susjeda Srbije koji je njen prijatelj. Zasto:confused: :confused: :confused: Nije valjda da su svi u krivu a samo Srbija u pravu. A svojim stavovima i ponasanjem se maximalno trudite da i jedinog pravog i iskrenog istorijskog prijatelja otjerate od sebe: Crnu Goru.
A one opaske o crvenom Hrvatu su zaista nepotrebne. Ako niko drugi, ono smo bar mi Crnogorci vazda znali sacuvati svoje. Zar ne?

[VAMPIR]

E da! I nije "pogresno skretanje", vec "lijevo skretanje". To je kovanica Milovana Djilasa, kojom se pokusalo opravdati surovo obracunavanje sa crnogorskim cetnicima. Medjutim, da se vratimo na uzrok te pojave. Naime, 1942g. crnogorski partizani se povlace sa glavnim stabom u Bosnu, ostavljajuci samo malobrojne (citaj: izolovane pojedince) da se "ne izgubi kontakt" sa teritorijom. U tom vremenu partizanske porodice zestoko stradaju od cetnika, pogotovo na sjeveru CG. Tako dobijamo tzv. "Pasija groblja". Po povratku partizana pocetkom 1944 kao vec dominantnom i organizovanom vojnom snagom, mnogi zatcu svoje domove opustjele, i krecu u licnu osvetu, jer, CG je mala, tu se oduvijek sve znalo, ko je ko i ko je gdje, i ko je sto radio!
Uostalom, procitaj po nesto od ne bas omiljenog (komunistima) pisca Mihajla Lalica, pa ce ti sve biti jasno. A i mnogi ljudi, pa i moja malenkost ti mogu ispricati po neku porodicnu pricu o crnim vremenima.

[dimitrije]

Zaista nema potrebe posmatrati Crnogorce na taj nacin, ili ste Srbi, ili Hrvati ili... Zar se to moze svesti na crno-bijelo? Konstantno negiranje crnogorskog identiteta je i dovelo do nezavisnosti CG. Ne negiram ja crnogorski indetitiet samo ga smatram za srpski kao sto i svi crnogroci to cine.Moj kum kaze ,,meni ne treba veca potvrda da sam srbin od toga sto sam crnogorac''



Sto se teksta tice, nikako se ne slazem sa tim da je pisan na anti-srpskoj osnovi. Naprotiv. Kada bi Srbija htjela da shvati sta su njeni stvarni prioriteti, i zvanicno bi mislila ovako. Da zvanici stavovi bi po tebi bili da predamo sve zemlje da damo Kosovo i Metohiju da ne bi bili zigosani od neke ljudske nule poput ovoga kolumniste vejesti


Uostalom, ajde navedi mi jednog susjeda Srbije koji je njen prijatelj. Zasto:confused: :confused: :confused: Nije valjda da su svi u krivu a samo Srbija u pravu. E moj Cernoboze gde si bio devedesetih,pa zasto nam nema prijatelja.Zato sto svi zele komad nase zemlje jer imaju podrsku onih koji zele unistiti uticaj pan-slovenske Srbije.Oni koji zele unistiti Rusiju a mi smo im na putu.Pricas tu o nekoj velikoj Srbiji a u protekloj deceniji mi jedini nismo crtali nikakve mape,niti samo napadali nekoga.

A svojim stavovima i ponasanjem se maximalno trudite da i jedinog pravog i iskrenog istorijskog prijatelja otjerate od sebe: Crnu Goru.Ne veoma je obrnuto,sada mi je drug bio na utakmici partizana.Sve mi je jasno,narod je mahom ne obrazovan i tako reci glup i vrlo brzo je progutao ono sto mu je servirano


A one opaske o crvenom Hrvatu su zaista nepotrebne. Nisam te opaske izmislio ja vec ,,crnogorci'' i hrvati,pogledaj sta si napisao u postu brate moj,ko da te je sekula drljevic vaspitao.Pogledaj koliko ima slicnosti u tvom pisanju sa pisanjem momaka iz gornje sekcije i shvatices o cemu ti govorim

[dimitrije]

E da! I nije "pogresno skretanje", vec "lijevo skretanje". To je kovanica Milovana Djilasa, kojom se pokusalo opravdati surovo obracunavanje sa crnogorskim cetnicima. Medjutim, da se vratimo na uzrok te pojave. Naime, 1942g. crnogorski partizani se povlace sa glavnim stabom u Bosnu, ostavljajuci samo malobrojne (citaj: izolovane pojedince) da se "ne izgubi kontakt" sa teritorijom. U tom vremenu partizanske porodice zestoko stradaju od cetnika, pogotovo na sjeveru CG. Tako dobijamo tzv. "Pasija groblja". Po povratku partizana pocetkom 1944 kao vec dominantnom i organizovanom vojnom snagom, mnogi zatcu svoje domove opustjele, i krecu u licnu osvetu, jer, CG je mala, tu se oduvijek sve znalo, ko je ko i ko je gdje, i ko je sto radio!
Uostalom, procitaj po nesto od ne bas omiljenog (komunistima) pisca Mihajla Lalica, pa ce ti sve biti jasno. A i mnogi ljudi, pa i moja malenkost ti mogu ispricati po neku porodicnu pricu o crnim vremenima.
Tvoji jesu li bili partizani?

[Slavic Enforcer]

Pricas tu o nekoj velikoj Srbiji a u protekloj deceniji mi jedini nismo crtali nikakve mape,niti samo napadali nekoga.


Sa tvojeg gledista mozda, jer su Knin i okolina po tvojem misljenju srpski teritorij, a Radovan Karadjic heroj.

[dimitrije]

Sa tvojeg gledista mozda, jer su Knin i okolina po tvojem misljenju srpski teritorij.
Za Knin sam siguran a za okolinu ne znam na sta mislis.Imao sam neke karte od pre par vekaova koje bi ti dokazale da jeste Knin nas.


A Radovan Karadjic vjerojatno heroj.Veliki heroj i veoma sposoban covek,svo vreme rata je bio uz nas narod i sve je dao za njega.
Voleo bih da mi imenujes neko mesto koje je gospodin Radovan Karadjic napao,ako ima takvog mesta?Samo vidi da nebudu neke lazi o navodnim srpskim bombardovanjima vec cinjenice u kojima ce se videte da je presednik Karadzic poslao vojsku na neko mesto naseljeno civilima.

[Ace Rimmer]

Za Knin sam siguran a za okolinu ne znam na sta mislis.Imao sam neke karte od pre par vekaova koje bi ti dokazale da jeste Knin nas.

Pokaži nam molim te.


Veliki heroj i veoma sposoban covek,svo vreme rata je bio uz nas narod i sve je dao za njega.
Voleo bih da mi imenujes neko mesto koje je gospodin Radovan Karadjic napao,ako ima takvog mesta?Samo vidi da nebudu neke lazi o navodnim srpskim bombardovanjima vec cinjenice u kojima ce se videte da je presednik Karadzic poslao vojsku na neko mesto naseljeno civilima.

Sarajevo možda. U kojem je i sam fizički sudjelovao pucajući iz protu-avionca. :nuts:

[dimitrije]

Pokaži nam molim te.www.knin.org.yu
tu bi trebalo da bude ali izgleda da je link oboren,pokavren mi je komp. pa kucam na laptopu ali pogledacu da nadjem sta vise siguran sam




Sarajevo možda. U kojem je i sam fizički sudjelovao pucajući iz protu-avionca. :nuts:Zna se ko je zapoceo u Sarajevu,turci sa granatiranjem vojne kolone koja je isla iz Hrvatske nikoga ne dirajuci.Gledao sam kako njihovi radio komentatori gledaju ubijanje iz jedne zgrade i sve to komentarisu sa recima ,,sada bi doslo dobro ladno pivo''a da ne spominjem 10000 mojih sunarodnika koji su poginuli u sprskom Sarajevu od turske ruke na najbrutalniji nacin.

[Slavic Enforcer]

Veliki heroj i veoma sposoban covek,svo vreme rata je bio uz nas narod i sve je dao za njega.
Voleo bih da mi imenujes neko mesto koje je gospodin Radovan Karadjic napao,ako ima takvog mesta?Samo vidi da nebudu neke lazi o navodnim srpskim bombardovanjima vec cinjenice u kojima ce se videte da je presednik Karadzic poslao vojsku na neko mesto naseljeno civilima.

A tko je potjerao Hrvate iz Banja Luke i drugih mjesta danasnje RS?

Taj "gospodin" je prije rata bio psihijatar za djecu (!), a tokom rata je od jednom imao dovoljno para da ih redovno u Austriji prokocka.

[Defensor Fidei]

Za Knin sam siguran a za okolinu ne znam na sta mislis.Imao sam neke karte od pre par vekaova koje bi ti dokazale da jeste Knin nas.

Knin je bio hrvatska metropola 87 godina prije nego što je srpska država uopće postojala.

[QUOTE]
Town of Knin is mentioned in 10th century in history of Constantine Porphyrogenitus as a center of parish. Croatian diocese was founded 1040 with jurisdiction extending to the Drava river, with the "Croatian bishop" at its head. It was also the capital of the medieval Croatian state around 1080 during the rule of king Zvonimir. Between the 10th and the 13th century, Knin was a notable military fort.

On May 29, 1522, the Knin fort fell to the Ottoman Empire, and Croatian folk left the town. Century and a half later, on September 11, 1688, it was captured by the Venetian Republic. After that, the Croatian population returned and the Franciscans built a monastery and a church in 1708.



Voleo bih da mi imenujes neko mesto koje je gospodin Radovan Karadjic napao,ako ima takvog mesta?


Napao je hrvatsko selo Ravno i to je bio početak rata u Bosni i Hercegovini.

[VAMPIR]

Tvoji jesu li bili partizani?
Moji, kao i vecina porodica u CG su imali i jedne i druge. Tatin stric je 1943 (kada su cetnici vec bili razbijeni!!!) presao iz partizana u cetnike sa rijecima: "Ovo nije ono za sto sam se ja borio!" A bio je predratni komunista. Zbog vojnicke casti ni poslije rata komunisti ga nijesu dirali!
Majkin otac je nosilac partizanske spomenice 1941-'45. U partizane je otisao sa nepunih 16 godina, a cijela porodica mu je stradala od balista, a jedina dva brata ubijena u kolasinskom zatvoru od cetnika.
Tako da sam potpuno emotivno neutralan, ali to me ne sprjecava da trezveno razmislim i vidim sto je bilo zlo. Mi zivimo svoj zivot. Ovo vrijeme pripada nama, a ne mrtvim djedovima. Mi smo dio Evrope, stari evropski narodi, i tog puta se moramo drzati. Nema potrebe za evrofobijom. Ona je potpuno neopravdana! Kad Srbija to shvati, svanuce joj!

[VAMPIR]

Ne negiram ja crnogorski indetitiet samo ga smatram za srpski kao sto i svi crnogroci to cine.Moj kum kaze ,,meni ne treba veca potvrda da sam srbin od toga sto sam crnogorac''



Da zvanici stavovi bi po tebi bili da predamo sve zemlje da damo Kosovo i Metohiju da ne bi bili zigosani od neke ljudske nule poput ovoga kolumniste vejesti


E moj Cernoboze gde si bio devedesetih,pa zasto nam nema prijatelja.Zato sto svi zele komad nase zemlje jer imaju podrsku onih koji zele unistiti uticaj pan-slovenske Srbije.Oni koji zele unistiti Rusiju a mi smo im na putu.Pricas tu o nekoj velikoj Srbiji a u protekloj deceniji mi jedini nismo crtali nikakve mape,niti samo napadali nekoga.

Ne veoma je obrnuto,sada mi je drug bio na utakmici partizana.Sve mi je jasno,narod je mahom ne obrazovan i tako reci glup i vrlo brzo je progutao ono sto mu je servirano


Nisam te opaske izmislio ja vec ,,crnogorci'' i hrvati,pogledaj sta si napisao u postu brate moj,ko da te je sekula drljevic vaspitao.Pogledaj koliko ima slicnosti u tvom pisanju sa pisanjem momaka iz gornje sekcije i shvatices o cemu ti govorim
Devedesetih sam bio protiv sramnog rata koji nije vodjen za odbranu, vec za pljacku i jednih i drugih i trecih. A to sto su Srbi najgore prosli, stvar je sposobnosti rukovodstva. Kao i kratkovidosti i nerealnim ambicijama SANU i SPC. Sto se zlom pravi, zlo ga i saceka.
Balsa Brkovic, pisac i novinar nikako nije Ljudska nula. Naprotiv! To je covjek koji itekako zna opalit i jedne i druge u CG!
Nisam rekao da treba sve predati. Nego se pametno izboriti za poziciju. Sto Srbi nikako ne rade od 1878. Uostalom, plodove toga vidimo i danas. Kako radis tako ti se plati.
Reci mi jednog prijatelja Srbije, bilo kad???
Hrvatska?
Madjarska?
Rumunija?
Bugarska?
Makedonija?
Albanija?
Bosna?
Kako da bas niko nije srpski prijatelj?

[The Serb]

Zlatna telad i lažni proroci


Jednom sam, ima tome mislim tri ljeta, vracajuci se iz Bara, umalo zgazio crnog macora. Vozio sam nekih osamdeset na sat, kada sam vidio macana kako samodovoljno, kako to samo macke umiju, pretrcava put. Imao je dovoljno vremena da pretrci, procijenio sam, zato nisam smanjivao brzinu. Ali macor se iz nekog razloga naglo okrenuo i pokušao se vratiti na plocnik sa kojega je istrcao na asfalt. Onda je, bice, shvatio da u tome nece uspjeti. Stisnuo sam kocnicu i gledao kako macor trci desno, pa ponovo lijevo, kako u panici poskakuje na mjestu, ne znajuci kamo da se skloni, i kako napokon, pred kolima koja uz škripu guma klize ka njemu i donose mu smrt, sjeda na asfalt, širi noge i pocinje da liže vlastita muda, kao da u tom trenutku, dvije sekunde pred smrt, nema niceg važnijeg na ovom svijetu što bi imao obaviti. Kola su se zaustavila tik ispred njega. Dok sam psovao macju narcisoidnost, vidio sam ga kako nestaje u žbunju, živ i cist, svježe polizan.
Sve vam ovo pricam jer mi ponašanje Srbije, tamošnje javnosti, ako hocete, nakon odlaska Crne Gore i konacnog sloma projekta velike Srbije, lici na ponašanje tog crnog macora.
Beogradskim medijima i Vladi Vojislava Koštunice tu od pocetka nešto nije bilo jasno. Naslovi poput „Srbija bez Crne Gore?” sa naglaskom na upitnik redali su se u danima nakon referenduma, u kojima je jedna po jedna relevantna medunarodna institucija potvrdivala pobjedu suverenista i demokraticnost i valjanost referenduma.
Jedna te ista prica, ispricana na više nacina. Nešto kao beogradski Rašomon: od vulgarnih manifestacija fašizma u Kuriru i Nacionalu, do jadikovki propale imperije u pokušaju kakve nalazimo u NIN-u, mediju koji artikuliše pogled na svijet Vlade Vojislava Koštunice. Izmedu, a zapravo kao rezultat svega toga, mržnja na sportskim terenima, mržnja tako snažna da dehumanizuje onoga koji mrzi, do mjere u kojoj skandiranje publike na košarkaškom mecu Partizan – Buducnost lici, ako to možete zamisliti, na ono što bi skandiralo pet hiljada serijskih ubica zatocenih u supersigurni zatvor – onaj u kojem nema zidova i žica, i gdje zatoceništvo garantuje cinjenica da zatocenici nisu svjesni cinjenice da su lišeni slobode.
„Šiptarsku decu na kolac”, skandirala je beogradska publika te veceri. Tu se povlaci crta. Tu više nema prostora za fenomenološke rasprave, nema prostora za eticke, etnicke i mentalitetske analize. Naša obaveza pred tim prizorom nije da kažemo „Mi smo eticko Drugo”, kao što se etickim razlikama ne može objasniti ni holokaust. Crta nije položena u prostor etickog, nego u prostor ontološkog. TO što je skandiralo „Šiptarsku decu na kolac” je ontološko Drugo; ljudi smo zato što nismo TO.
Fundamentalni razlog za crnogorsku nezavisnost je bio ontološki – sva gnusoba beogradske reakcije na nezavisnost svjedoci o tome. Fundamentalni, pak, problem Srbije je što je dozvolila da se TO predstavlja kao autenticno srpstvo, što nema snage da napravi distancu u odnosu na TO, koje etiketira „izdajnike”, ubija Premijere i suštinski vodi unionisticke kampanje u Crnoj Gori. Kada se TO politicko-kartografski artikuliše, dobijete Veliku Srbiju, genocid, stotine hiljada mrtvih i raseljenih. Miro Glavurtic je jednom primijetio da nešto što proizvodi toliku nesrecu i ljudske žrtve ne može biti drugo nego – zlo.
Otud beogradski mediji prave suštinsku grešku – crnogorska nezavisnost nije gubitak Srbije, nego velike Srbije. Erupcija radosti u Podgorici, u noci referenduma, kojoj se i dalje cude u Beogradu („Zašto nas toliko mrze? Kakva smo to braca kada se toliko vesele što se rastajemo?” pita se NIN) desila se ne zbog crnogorskog rastanka sa Srbijom, nego zato što je sa vrata Crne Gore skinuta cizma velike Srbije. Srboljub Brankovic, kolumnista NIN-a, piše kako su se Slovenci, Hrvati i „Muslimani iz Bosne”, kako on zove Bošnjake, radovali „srpskom porazu”. Naravno: nije poražena Srbija, nego Velika Srbija, koja je velikim dobrom zadužila i Vukovar i Sarajevo, i Hrvate i „Muslimane iz Bosne”. NIN to ne vidi, ali: najvecu korist od crnogorske nezavisnosti ima Srbija, ukoliko ovu priliku iskoristi da upokoji svoj imperijalni projekat, koji bezuspješno pokušava da ostvari vec citav vijek.
Tijaniceva RTS organizovala je emisije u kojima su Miloševicevi saucesnici u zlocinu obrazlagali svoje videnje crnogorske samostalnosti. Kao po obicaju, najglasniji je bio radikal Aleksandar Vucic. Covjek tako mlad, a vec je izgubio tri rata. I ništa iz svega toga nije naucio. Adolf Hitler je tvrdio da je najgore što covjek može uciniti za svoj narod – to da izgubi rat. Možda je gore da ga uopšte – zapocne? Ali sa zlom fašizma nema dijaloga. Ta vrsta zla, buduci da nije metafizicka, nego vrlo fizicka, se pobjeduje, ili u suprotnom vas zatre.
NIN i dalje sanja imperijalne snove: „Da ne pominjemo ovom prilikom one koji bi bili srecni da nam se PRIPOJE (ne pridruže, nego pripoje op. A.N.), kada bi samo imali tu šansu”. Tirnanic u istoj novini najavljuje ustanak u Crnoj Gori na 13. jul. Nebojša Jevric ovako izvještava iz Crne Gore: „Ako cetinjski manastir može da poseduje ruku svetog Jovana, zašto Crnogorska pravoslavna crkva ne bi mogla da poseduje nogu Svetog Josipa Radnika, koji se slavi prvog maja po gregorijanskom kalendaru”. Isti autor citira Ranka Jovovica koji o Crnoj Gori i Crnogorcima kaže: „Ovo je poslednje Brozovo smece”. „Video sam babu koju su jedva doneli da glasa. U dimijama. I bilo mi je jasno. Odmah mi je sve bilo jasno”, piše ovaj novinarski pas rata.
Tu je naravno i Matija Beckovic, sa još jednom idiotskom floskulom lansiranom za potrebe lakšeg prihvatanja „caše bratske žuci”, kako je doživljena crnogorska nezavisnost. NIN na naslovnoj strani donosi Beckovicev iskaz: „Suverenost na koncu od pola promila”. Sad: 0,5 odsto nije pola promila, nego pola procenta. I nije konac od pola procenta, nego mornarsko uže od 11 posto razlike. Beckovicev superkomicni mesijanski kompleks ponovo dolazi do izražaja. Iako je koji dan pred referendum, na unionistickom mitnigu u Podgorici pogrešno prorekao da se Crna Gora nece otcepiti, jer nikome nije pošlo za rukom da je odvoji od Srbije, neuspješni prorok Beckovic se u NIN-u ponovo poziva na svoje prorocke sposobnosti.
Pjesnik koji govori iz debelog crijeva cijelog naroda, autor prorocanstva da ce Crnogorci nestati prije njegove smrti, veli: „U svakom slucaju, obistinjuju se moji stihovi: Umrla je stara Crna Gora/I bez nje se muce Crnogorci/A nikako da i oni pomru/Umrijece no ce prije toga/Sebe i nju mrtvu obrukati”. Beckovic je zlatno tele Velike Srbije, njen lažni prorok – kada ce Srbija to shvatiti, i kamo ce stici slijedeci lažne proroke, nije više problem Crne Gore.

Balsa Brkovic, kolumnista Vijesti

Ovo smece si trebao da postavis na ustaski deo foruma. Ako ces da pljujes po Srbima red bi bio da barem radis to u rvatskom forumu ne ovde.

[VAMPIR]

Ovo smece si trebao da postavis na ustaski deo foruma. Ako ces da pljujes po Srbima red bi bio da barem radis to u rvatskom forumu ne ovde.
The Serb, opet si me pogresno razumio. Nikada nisam imao namjeru da pljujem po Srbima. Rodjen sam u srpskom dijelu BiH, Doboj, najbolji prijatelji su mi nekako uvijek bili etnicki Srbi, tako da se o nekoj mrznji Srba kod mene ne moze ni govoriti. Ali vidis, ja sam covjek koji Srbiji zeli najbolje, a dok god vodi ovakvu politiku dobru se ni primaci nece. Ja sam covjek koji mrzi fasizam i glupost, bilo ciju i bilo gdje! Zar nismo u stanju da vidimo plodove te politike svaki dan??? Prebogata Srbija grca u siromastvu! Oko 2,500 000 zrtava u dva svjetska rata i mladost koja je svaki dan napusta! To mora stati! Ja srbiju (kao i Rusiju) volim zbog onoga sto bi mogla i trebala biti, ne zbog onoga sto jeste!
A posto ovdje nema foruma CG, nisi u prilici da cujes moje komentare o CG politici. Itekako imam sto reci!
A sto se tice postavljanja "ovog smeca" na Hrvatski forum, zasto bih ga tamo postavio???:confused: Pa ja nisam htio da "ogovaram" Srbe sa strane, vec da dodjem ovdje i kazem svoje misljenje. Istina cesto boli, znam.
Pozdrav!:)

[The Serb]

The Serb, opet si me pogresno razumio. Nikada nisam imao namjeru da pljujem po Srbima. Rodjen sam u srpskom dijelu BiH, Doboj, najbolji prijatelji su mi nekako uvijek bili etnicki Srbi, tako da se o nekoj mrznji Srba kod mene ne moze ni govoriti. Ali vidis, ja sam covjek koji Srbiji zeli najbolje, a dok god vodi ovakvu politiku dobru se ni primaci nece. Ja sam covjek koji mrzi fasizam i glupost, bilo ciju i bilo gdje! Zar nismo u stanju da vidimo plodove te politike svaki dan??? Prebogata Srbija grca u siromastvu! Oko 2,500 000 zrtava u dva svjetska rata i mladost koja je svaki dan napusta! To mora stati! Ja srbiju (kao i Rusiju) volim zbog onoga sto bi mogla i trebala biti, ne zbog onoga sto jeste!
A posto ovdje nema foruma CG, nisi u prilici da cujes moje komentare o CG politici. Itekako imam sto reci!
A sto se tice postavljanja "ovog smeca" na Hrvatski forum, zasto bih ga tamo postavio???:confused: Pa ja nisam htio da "ogovaram" Srbe sa strane, vec da dodjem ovdje i kazem svoje misljenje. Istina cesto boli, znam.
Pozdrav!:)

Ja tebe vrlo dobro razumem i muka mi je kad vidim takve licemerne osobe i lazne moraliste. Ti lijes krokodilske suze za siptarske teroriste i balije dok ignorises brdo dokaza dokumentovanih o monstruoznim zlocinima protiv srpskih civila. Kako te nije sramota ako nisi balija, ustasa ili siptar da se tako licemerno ponasas? Uvek sam mrzeo lazne demokrate koji selektivno optuzuju i osudjuju, totalno su providni i lako ih je raskrinkati. Njihove optuzbe su politicki motivisane, nemaju ti ljudi trunke savesti i sutra bi rado prodali i rodjenu majku za sitne jevrejske pare.

Zasto ne osudis siptarske zlocine i etnicko ciscenje na Kosovu i muslimanske/ustaske zlocine u republici Srpskoj/Krajini? Ti govoris srpski dal znas da kad bi te culi da govoris tim jezikom na Kosovu ubili bi te odmah. To je ta primitivna anti Evropska azijatska rulja koju ti podrzavas ovde a srbe optuzujes da su primitivni nacionalisti. Niko siptara u Srbiji ne dira, mogu da govere svoji svinjski jezik bez problema zahvaljujuci srpskoj dobroti i gluposti.

Nazalost ti si tipican produkt Milove kontrolisane medije koja truje narod u Crnoj Gori lazima vec godinama. Ispiranje mozgova se nastavlja kao za vreme Broza, zivis u policijskoj drzavi jednog anti Crnogorskog mafijasa koji je stvorio savez sa djavolom ali veruj mi pucice to uskoro jer siptarski apetiti nikad nece biti zaustavljeni a kad konacno bude doslo da okrsaja u Crnoj Gori prvi ces kukati i traziti pomoc.
Opet te pitam, KAD CES DA OSUDIS SIPTARSKI TEROR NAD SRBIMA I CRNOGORCIMA NA KOSOVU??

[dimitrije]

Pokaži nam molim te.
Izvukao sam ovde neke zanmiljive detalje
a evo i slike:[/QUOTE]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7748/knin18xi.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9367/knin28pv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/696/knin47cx.jpg[/
[URL=http://imageshack.us]http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/3473/krajina8iy.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[dimitrije]

@CERNOBOG
Pogledaj ranije izjave don mila malbora
pogledaj samo sta je rekao za jevrema berkovica koji sada igra znacajnu ulogu i Crnoj Gori
mislim da si sada shvatio poentu o cemu sam pricao
ziv bio i sto pre se opasuljio
1992.
”Svaki pametan Crnogorac i svaki pošten čovjek u ovoj zemlji sa prezirom pominje ime izdajnika Jevreme Brkovića, koji je iz lične sujete izdao svoj narod i sada daje antijugoslovenske izjave po Zagrebu, dok ustaše, ponovo kao 1941. godine, krvave svoje kame na nemoćnim srpskim civilima„
1991.
"Crna Gora je opstala kao ostrvo slobode kada su drugi bili porobljeni, pa zašto sada ne bi mogla opstati kao ostrvo komunizma"

"... i šah sam omrznuo zbog šahovnice"
1992. godine
“Milošević je nešto najbolje što se moglo desiti Jugoslaviji u ovom trenutku, kada povampirene fašističke snage u Hrvatskoj i Sloveniji pokušavaju da unište sve ono što je stvoreno od 1945. godine do sada. Ponosan sam da u ovim istorijskim trenucima mogu da budem rame uz rame sa njim u odbrani tekovina revolucije”
a poznat je i izjava povodom njegovog imovnog stanja:
“Tek ću da budem bogat kada budem prestao da se bavim politikom”.

Ponosni smo na srpsko porijeklo i crnogorsku državnost, na slavnu istoriju srpskog naroda. Zato i vjerujemo u zajedničku budućnost i prosperitet”.
“Što se tiče straha od Srbije, time pokušava politički manipulisati jedan broj ljudi, nasljednika ustašoidne politike Sekule Drljevića i Savića Markovića Štedimlije, politike razbratništva sa srpskim narodom. U svojoj zaslijepljenosti mržnjom, oni izmišljaju etnogenetske teorije o tome da smo iz Male Azije, pričaju kako je naše pismo latinično a vjera nam katolička... I to sve s namjerom da dokažu našu autohtonost i posebnost u odnosu na Srbe”.
Izjava o Liberanom CG-u u to doba:
"Poručujem Liberalnom savezu i nekim drugim manje uticajnim partijama koje se vrlo zalažu za otcepljenje da su osvojili 12-13 odsto biračkog tela, pa im se upravo toliko i poklanja pažnje”.
Ja, niti bilo ko od nas u rukovodstvu, ne stidimo se reći da smo komunisti niti da želimo nastavljati izvornu komunističku ideju”.
Na Kosovu je napadnuta Jugoslavija. Kosovo je bedem srpskog i crnogorskog naroda koje ne može pasti dok je nas i pokoljenja naših potomaka. Nebrojeno puta smo rekli: Kosovo se mora braniti svim sredstvima”, Andrijevica 13. jul 1990


1998...Milo Đukanović za list POBJEDU 26.05.1998.
"Zbog vjekovnih bratskih veza. Zajedničke krvi u svim ratovima prolivene, zbog vjekovnog sna najboljih Crnogoraca i Srbijanaca, zbog izvjesno bolje zajedničke budućnosti, Crna Gora se i otvorenog srca opredijelila za život u zajedničkoj državi sa Srbijom".

[VAMPIR]

Ja tebe vrlo dobro razumem i muka mi je kad vidim takve licemerne osobe i lazne moraliste. Ti lijes krokodilske suze za siptarske teroriste i balije dok ignorises brdo dokaza dokumentovanih o monstruoznim zlocinima protiv srpskih civila. Kako te nije sramota ako nisi balija, ustasa ili siptar da se tako licemerno ponasas? Uvek sam mrzeo lazne demokrate koji selektivno optuzuju i osudjuju, totalno su providni i lako ih je raskrinkati. Njihove optuzbe su politicki motivisane, nemaju ti ljudi trunke savesti i sutra bi rado prodali i rodjenu majku za sitne jevrejske pare.

Zasto ne osudis siptarske zlocine i etnicko ciscenje na Kosovu i muslimanske/ustaske zlocine u republici Srpskoj/Krajini? Ti govoris srpski dal znas da kad bi te culi da govoris tim jezikom na Kosovu ubili bi te odmah. To je ta primitivna anti Evropska azijatska rulja koju ti podrzavas ovde a srbe optuzujes da su primitivni nacionalisti. Niko siptara u Srbiji ne dira, mogu da govere svoji svinjski jezik bez problema zahvaljujuci srpskoj dobroti i gluposti.

Nazalost ti si tipican produkt Milove kontrolisane medije koja truje narod u Crnoj Gori lazima vec godinama. Ispiranje mozgova se nastavlja kao za vreme Broza, zivis u policijskoj drzavi jednog anti Crnogorskog mafijasa koji je stvorio savez sa djavolom ali veruj mi pucice to uskoro jer siptarski apetiti nikad nece biti zaustavljeni a kad konacno bude doslo da okrsaja u Crnoj Gori prvi ces kukati i traziti pomoc.
Opet te pitam, KAD CES DA OSUDIS SIPTARSKI TEROR NAD SRBIMA I CRNOGORCIMA NA KOSOVU??
Pazi ovo, vrlo nekulturni momce:
Protiv rata sam bio i dok je trajao, a ne kao neki kako vjetar dune. Ko kaze da ne osudjujem zlocine nad Srbima???
Osudjujem bilo koji oblik gluposti, nesvjesnosti i fasizma, (pa samim tim i taj najgori oblik istog) bilo ciji i bilo gdje!!!
Jedan sam od (izgleda vrlo rijetkih, nazalost) ljudi koji su vaspitani na svetoj ideji humanizma da svako ljudsko bice ima pravo da zivi slobodno i neugnjetavano. Da ljudi imaju pravo da kazu ono sto misle, a da se pri tome ne moraju bojati ekstrema, sadista, bolesnika, auto destruktivaca i svakog oblika fasizma u punoj formi ili pak zacetku!!!
Zato, pazi sta pricas i kako mi se obracas. Tolerantan jesam. Trudim se. Ali budalom se ne smatram da bih morao sve to da trpim, a pri tome te ispostujem i odgovorim ti u najboljoj namjeri.
By the way, ako si prati moje postove dalo se zakljuciti da je moje misljenje da su srbi narod koji je daleko najvise stradao (zrtva po glavi stanovnika) u cijeloj Evropi, uz Bjeloruse.
Ako zelis ikakvu komunikaciju sa mojom malenkoscu, molim te da je dalje sprovodis bez vrijedjanja.
Pozdrav!

[dimitrije]

Pazi ovo, vrlo nekulturni momce:
Protiv rata sam bio i dok je trajao, a ne kao neki kako vjetar dune. Ko kaze da ne osudjujem zlocine nad Srbima???
Osudjujem bilo koji oblik gluposti, nesvjesnosti i fasizma, (pa samim tim i taj najgori oblik istog) bilo ciji i bilo gdje!!!
Jedan sam od (izgleda vrlo rijetkih, nazalost) ljudi koji su vaspitani na svetoj ideji humanizma da svako ljudsko bice ima pravo da zivi slobodno i neugnjetavano. Da ljudi imaju pravo da kazu ono sto misle, a da se pri tome ne moraju bojati ekstrema, sadista, bolesnika, auto destruktivaca i svakog oblika fasizma u punoj formi ili pak zacetku!!!
Zato, pazi sta pricas i kako mi se obracas. Tolerantan jesam. Trudim se. Ali budalom se ne smatram da bih morao sve to da trpim, a pri tome te ispostujem i odgovorim ti u najboljoj namjeri.
By the way, ako si prati moje postove dalo se zakljuciti da je moje misljenje da su srbi narod koji je daleko najvise stradao (zrtva po glavi stanovnika) u cijeloj Evropi, uz Bjeloruse.
Ako zelis ikakvu komunikaciju sa mojom malenkoscu, molim te da je dalje sprovodis bez vrijedjanja.
Pozdrav!
Brate mnogo gresis, ne zelim da te vredjam
Ako si cuo za kompleks Pauljevih pasa koji se na perfindniji nacin sprovodi i nad ljudima.Kao sto su psi lucali pljuvacku na svaki znak za hranu tako i danasnji materijalisti i demokrate na svaki nacionalizam upotrebljavaju iste fraze i brblaju na vec pripremljen nacin tj. kako su ih edukovali preko sredstava za masovno informisanje-dezinformisanje
Zgadi mi se cim cujem rec fasizam koju kvazi demokrate koriste cim im neko ne odgovara.Fasizam je pokret koji je bio u Italiji i nema veze sa danasnjicom ali ga mnogi i danas koriste bas zato sto ima takvog uticaja na ljude.A koriste ga obicno demokrate,hriscani i razni ljudi koje samo novac znanima to su ljudi koji ne prestano izvrcu zlo i dobro,zlo prikazuju kao dobro.Ovih dana je afera u skupstini Srbije,kada su rekli jednoj kurvi iz G17_koja uvozi genetski modifikovanu hranu da joj je brat bio u zengama,otac clan HDZ-a a majka pripadnik ustaske frakcije ona ih je odmah proglasila za fasiste.

Ravnopravnost za koju se ti zalazes je cisto silovanje prirode,ona se nikada nece desiti osim u glavama obmanjenih gledaoca televizije.
Nismo svi jednaki,jesi li ti jednak sa fatmirom ljimjem koji siluje srpske devojcice do 10 godina pa ih zatim kolje,jesi li ti jednak za naprimer titom koji ubija maldice samo zato sto su srbi i crnogorci jesi li jednak sa ciganinom iz cerge koji spava sa rodjenom sestrom?Ja licno mislim da nisi,vec da si mnogo vise iznad njih jer si covek i glavom i bradom
Da si zeleo da procits fasisticke tvorevine o jevrejima shvatio bih kako su upravo oni ti koji zele da proture taj humanizam ali samo za nas kao sto i i vera hristova samo za nas a oni ce se naravno i dalje drzati talimuda

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Izvukao sam ovde neke zanmiljive detalje
a evo i slike:http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7748/knin18xi.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9367/knin28pv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/696/knin47cx.jpg[/
[URL=http://imageshack.us]http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/3473/krajina8iy.gif (http://imageshack.us)[/QUOTE]

Pa ta karta okupiranih teritorija ne znaci nista. To je isto kao de neko stavi kartu NDH iz drugog svetskog rata. U stavri, kad je KNin ikad bio srpski kroz povijest? Ja nemogu se sijetit? U 5-om vijeku? 10 - tom?

[The Serb]

Pazi ovo, vrlo nekulturni momce:
Protiv rata sam bio i dok je trajao, a ne kao neki kako vjetar dune. Ko kaze da ne osudjujem zlocine nad Srbima???
Osudjujem bilo koji oblik gluposti, nesvjesnosti i fasizma, (pa samim tim i taj najgori oblik istog) bilo ciji i bilo gdje!!!
Jedan sam od (izgleda vrlo rijetkih, nazalost) ljudi koji su vaspitani na svetoj ideji humanizma da svako ljudsko bice ima pravo da zivi slobodno i neugnjetavano. Da ljudi imaju pravo da kazu ono sto misle, a da se pri tome ne moraju bojati ekstrema, sadista, bolesnika, auto destruktivaca i svakog oblika fasizma u punoj formi ili pak zacetku!!!
Zato, pazi sta pricas i kako mi se obracas. Tolerantan jesam. Trudim se. Ali budalom se ne smatram da bih morao sve to da trpim, a pri tome te ispostujem i odgovorim ti u najboljoj namjeri.
By the way, ako si prati moje postove dalo se zakljuciti da je moje misljenje da su srbi narod koji je daleko najvise stradao (zrtva po glavi stanovnika) u cijeloj Evropi, uz Bjeloruse.
Ako zelis ikakvu komunikaciju sa mojom malenkoscu, molim te da je dalje sprovodis bez vrijedjanja.
Pozdrav!

Ja nisam nekulturan ali sa debilima nekad nema drugog nacina nego da im kazes direktno u lice sta mislis.

Kazes da si protiv rata, pa ko je normalan za rat?? Sta mislis da su Srbi bili za rat? Braniti se od neprijatelja koji hoce da te unisti nije zlocin i nije nemoralno. Pitam te da si ti bio vodja recima Srba u Bosni ili na Kosovu i da si stavljen u situaciju gde se moras braniti od zlocinaca i mudjahedina kako bi ti reagovao? Dali bi pobegao sa ratista ili bi branio svoju familiju i dom? Lako je tebi da moralises iz svoje udobne fotelje kad nisi okusio rat i nisi video zlocin.

Kazes da osudjujes fasizam a hoces u EU. EU/USA su fasisticke cionisticke tvorevine novog svetskog poretka i njima je cilj svetska dominacija i unistenje nase bele rase kroz rasno mesanje/homosexualnost/drogu/'demokratiju'. Ta plutokratija koja unistava drzave i nacije kroz svoje Soros fondove za 'otvoreno drustvo' stoji iza mafijasa Mila i njegove anti Crnogorske bande. Sta radi cionisticka Amerika u Iraku i Afghanistanu je tipican primer jevrejskog fasizma a ti bi da se Srbija stavi u taj korpus.
Ja sam protiv toga, ja sam za zdravu Srbiju i Evropu bez jevrejskog zla, Evropu slobodnu, onu Evropu koja slavi Radovana Karadzica i Ratka Mladica koji su odavno postali simboli prave zdrave i ciste Evrope ne ovog truleza sto imamo danas.

[The Serb]

Prvo, kao što je i red e pa, braćo-dukljani, montenegrini, liberali, GZP-ovci, Bošnjaci, muslimani, Albanci, Hrvati, Romi, cigani, gabelji, narkomani, šverceri, kriminalci, lopovi, špijuni, nazdravlje vam “neovisni” Montenegro! Kao što vidite, ovdje jedino nema Crnogoraca i Srba! Onih što su vjekovima stvarali Crnu Goru!

Šta se ovo, zapravo, desilo? Projektovani lopovluk koji ovaj marionetski podgorički režim sprovodi od predsjedničkih izbora 1997. pa sve do danas, pod pokroviteljstvom spoljnog faktora i po principu “no name”, a u cilju rasprodaje nacionalnih interesa i nacionalne veleizdaje!

Ovakva izdaja nije počinjena još od Kosovskog boja prije 617 godina! Izdali smo Srbiju u ovom kritičnom istorijskom trenutku i zabili joj nož u leđa, zatvorili smo vrata guzicom i pred Beogradom, fukarski smo ostavili 265.000 crnogorskih državljana u Srbiji i odrekli ih se, razvalili smo državu koju su nam vjekovima stvarali naši preci, omogućili smo Kosovu da se otcijepi od SCG i Srbije! Od 21. maja 2006. godine Vuk Branković će se po dobru pominjati u odnosu na ove današnje Brankoviće!

Kako ja, sad, da pogledam u oči bratu u Crvenki, ujaku u Šapcu, sestri u Beogradu? Kako da objasnim bratu Srbinu da ja nijesam ta đukanovićevsko-marovićevska fukara koja je prodala državu za večeru!

Montenegrinskoj “neovisnosti” najviše su se obradovali u Beču, Ljubljani, Zagrebu, Tirani i Prištini! Bečki mediji sa neskrivenim zadovoljstvom ističu “da je ovo konačni nestanak Jugoslavije, zemlje nastale na pepelu Austro-ugarske monarhije kojoj je smrtni udarac zadala baš Srbija u Prvom svjetskom ratu”! Stipe Mesić je odmah čestitao, prije nego su i izbrojani glasovi, Janez Drnovšek je hitno doletio na Sveti Stefan da se izljubi sa Filipom, Beriša iz Albanije je oduševljen, Čeku i Tači sa Kosova sijaju od sreće! Ako su svi zadovoljni tamo, to znači da je neko najebao ovamo!

Da ne biste bili u zabludi, situacija sa geopolitičkog i regionalnog aspekta vam je sljedeća: Austro-ugarska (i Njemačka) je restaurirala svoje carstvo i izbila na granice iz 1914 - na Drinu i do Novog Pazara! Tog kobnog 21. maja 2006. godine Crna Gora je prestala da postoji kao država i postala je samo geografski pojam! Za uzvrat, za to što su samoponištili sebe, što su osramotili viševjekovnu crnogorsku državnost, što su izbrukali pretke, u Beču je nedavno podgorička politička, intelektualna i kulturna elita, na “kulturnim” svečanostima, dobila na poklon polovnu bečku “govnaru”- samohodnu visokopritisnu cistijernu za crpljenje fekalija!

Pa zašto je onda na Cetinju organizovana centralna svečanost zbog crnogorskog samoponištenja? Zašto su na Cetinju volovi pekli volove, kad je naša mila Crna Gora 21. maja ispustila svoju plemenitu dušu!

Ovaj referendum je bio i najprecizniji popis stanovništva u ovom teškom istorijskom trenutku! Tako se ispostavilo da ovdje živi 45 odsto srpskih Crnogoraca koji su pokušali da spasu Crnu Goru! Ovje živi i 30 odsto dukljana, montenegrina, liberala, GZP-ovaca, narkomana, švercera, kriminalaca, lopova, špijuna, tj. novokomponovanog “no name” naroda, koji neće da bude ono što su mu bili preci! Mnogi od njih su prodali državu za funkciju pomoćnika šumara u nekoj vukojebini, za milicijsku uniformu, za mobilni telefon, za račun za struju, za ministarsku funkciju, za dva grama droge, a neki su prodali i ličnu kartu i sebe i državu za 150 eura! I ovdje živi 25 odsto nacionalnih manjina, tj. Bošnjaka, muslimana, Albanaca, Hrvata, Roma, cigana i gabelja koji, nažalost, definitivno gledaju razroko - jednim okom na Crnu Goru a drugim okom na neke susjedne destinacije, i svi su, listom, glasali protiv Crne Gore, a u korist tih destinacija!

Bez nacionalne, političke, intelektualne i kulturne elite, bez nacionalne svijesti, sa polusvijetom koji je instaliran spolja i već 10 godina smara i razara ovu nesrećnu Crnu Goru, sa brojnim rektorčićima, dekančićima, profesorčićima, akademčićima, tezgaroščićima, šišnjarčićima, kojih možete nakupovati na buljuke za jeftine pare, Crna Gora nije ni mogla ni više ni bolje!

Kada su ove podgoričke prodane duše, koje su se prvi put u životu pošteno najele i napile kad su se dohvatile vlasti i počele da se bave genetskim inženjeringom i nacionalnom hirurgijom, utvrđujući crnogorstvo u srpstvu i odstranjujući srpstvo iz crnogorstva, postalo je jasno da ovaj narod i ova država nemaju budućnosti! Kakva je to država kada je niko ne želi - ni ona polovina što je bila protiv nje, a ni ona polovina što joj je izglasala “neovisnost”! Prokleta avlija, prokleta zemlja, spaljena zemlja, spržena zemlja!

Kada sam prognozirao da će referendum pasti, mislio sam da će prevladati razum, ekonomski interesi i civilizacijski integracionistički procesi, kao i svugdje u svijetu! Ali ovo nije svijet, ovo je divljina! Ukalkulisao sam i lopovluk režima, ali je očigledno da čak ni ja ne mogu prognozirati toliko lopovluka koliko oni mogu da ukradu! I, najzad, računao sam da je, možda, ova podgorička marioneta oposlila sve zadatke za tuđe interese, ali to, očito, nije bio slučaj

Komentar iz crnogorskog "Dan"-a

[VAMPIR]

Brate mnogo gresis, ne zelim da te vredjam
Ako si cuo za kompleks Pauljevih pasa koji se na perfindniji nacin sprovodi i nad ljudima.Kao sto su psi lucali pljuvacku na svaki znak za hranu tako i danasnji materijalisti i demokrate na svaki nacionalizam upotrebljavaju iste fraze i brblaju na vec pripremljen nacin tj. kako su ih edukovali preko sredstava za masovno informisanje-dezinformisanje
Zgadi mi se cim cujem rec fasizam koju kvazi demokrate koriste cim im neko ne odgovara.Fasizam je pokret koji je bio u Italiji i nema veze sa danasnjicom ali ga mnogi i danas koriste bas zato sto ima takvog uticaja na ljude.A koriste ga obicno demokrate,hriscani i razni ljudi koje samo novac znanima to su ljudi koji ne prestano izvrcu zlo i dobro,zlo prikazuju kao dobro.Ovih dana je afera u skupstini Srbije,kada su rekli jednoj kurvi iz G17_koja uvozi genetski modifikovanu hranu da joj je brat bio u zengama,otac clan HDZ-a a majka pripadnik ustaske frakcije ona ih je odmah proglasila za fasiste.

Ravnopravnost za koju se ti zalazes je cisto silovanje prirode,ona se nikada nece desiti osim u glavama obmanjenih gledaoca televizije.
Nismo svi jednaki,jesi li ti jednak sa fatmirom ljimjem koji siluje srpske devojcice do 10 godina pa ih zatim kolje,jesi li ti jednak za naprimer titom koji ubija maldice samo zato sto su srbi i crnogorci jesi li jednak sa ciganinom iz cerge koji spava sa rodjenom sestrom?Ja licno mislim da nisi,vec da si mnogo vise iznad njih jer si covek i glavom i bradom
Da si zeleo da procits fasisticke tvorevine o jevrejima shvatio bih kako su upravo oni ti koji zele da proture taj humanizam ali samo za nas kao sto i i vera hristova samo za nas a oni ce se naravno i dalje drzati talimuda
Ne, Dimitrije, potpuno si u pravu, ne mislim da sam jednak sa tim i takvim ljudima! Odatle i poticu svi moji stavovi. Samo je svoju nejednakost ne trazim u krivljenju cijelih naroda zbog njihovih monstruma! Svi smo imali, imamo i vjerovatno cemo imati svoje demone, ali ja nikada necu priznati da je cijeli npr. Njemacki narod zlocinacki zbog Hitlera. Zlo ima ime i prezime! To trebamo zapamtiti.
Pozdrav!:)

[VAMPIR]

Ja nisam nekulturan ali sa debilima nekad nema drugog nacina nego da im kazes direktno u lice sta mislis.

Kazes da si protiv rata, pa ko je normalan za rat?? Sta mislis da su Srbi bili za rat? Braniti se od neprijatelja koji hoce da te unisti nije zlocin i nije nemoralno. Pitam te da si ti bio vodja recima Srba u Bosni ili na Kosovu i da si stavljen u situaciju gde se moras braniti od zlocinaca i mudjahedina kako bi ti reagovao? Dali bi pobegao sa ratista ili bi branio svoju familiju i dom? Lako je tebi da moralises iz svoje udobne fotelje kad nisi okusio rat i nisi video zlocin.

Kazes da osudjujes fasizam a hoces u EU. EU/USA su fasisticke cionisticke tvorevine novog svetskog poretka i njima je cilj svetska dominacija i unistenje nase bele rase kroz rasno mesanje/homosexualnost/drogu/'demokratiju'. Ta plutokratija koja unistava drzave i nacije kroz svoje Soros fondove za 'otvoreno drustvo' stoji iza mafijasa Mila i njegove anti Crnogorske bande. Sta radi cionisticka Amerika u Iraku i Afghanistanu je tipican primer jevrejskog fasizma a ti bi da se Srbija stavi u taj korpus.
Ja sam protiv toga, ja sam za zdravu Srbiju i Evropu bez jevrejskog zla, Evropu slobodnu, onu Evropu koja slavi Radovana Karadzica i Ratka Mladica koji su odavno postali simboli prave zdrave i ciste Evrope ne ovog truleza sto imamo danas.
Cijelo vrijeme pricam da sa ulaskom u EU ne treba zuriti, ako si pazljivo citao. Evropi se treba pridruziti tek kad se rijese svoji problemi. Da se ne bude u poziciji "banana drzave". Srbija to moze!
A ko nije za zdravu Evropu???
P.S : Da bi se nekome u lice reklo nesto direktno, nije potrebno nazvati ga debilom.

[Rudolf_HeSS_88]

Cernobog - ti si obična budala.Isti si skroz kao ovi milovi narko-bosovi.Vi svi šiptarski dupeljupci ćete na kraju moliti nas da vam pomognemo jer ćeš se gušiti u šiptarskom smradu koji si sam privukao.

[VAMPIR]

Cernobog - ti si obična budala.Isti si skroz kao ovi milovi narko-bosovi.Vi svi šiptarski dupeljupci ćete na kraju moliti nas da vam pomognemo jer ćeš se gušiti u šiptarskom smradu koji si sam privukao.
Veliko hvala! Zadovoljstvo mi je da me neko takav smatra budalom, tj da ne dijelimo iste stavove.:thanks:

[Rakhmetov]

Yugoslavia was created so that several micro states lwould not be easily conquered or ruled by proxy by its larger neighbours. Yugoslavia during Tito proved to be a formiddable power in international politics. It helped to originate the Non-Aligned Movement. What the imperialists always wanted was to tear up Yugoslavia through divide and conquer so that its proletariat and resources can be easily exploited. The sole source of the conflict of Yugoslavia was that the Croats and the Muslim savages tried their hardest to deny national liberation for the Serbs.

[Jebivjetar]

Another American expert. :D

[Rakhmetov]

Although Americans clearly favored the Muslim savages and Croats, American observers are automatically more unbiased than the Croats that slaughtered Serbs and denied them national liberation.

[Jebivjetar]

I'm not interested is your comment biased or unbiased, I'm just amused how can foreigners sum up half a century of Balkan politics and bloody wars in just few lines.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Yugoslavia was created so that several micro states lwould not be easily conquered or ruled by proxy by its larger neighbours. Yugoslavia during Tito proved to be a formiddable power in international politics. It helped to originate the Non-Aligned Movement. What the imperialists always wanted was to tear up Yugoslavia through divide and conquer so that its proletariat and resources can be easily exploited. The sole source of the conflict of Yugoslavia was that the Croats and the Muslim savages tried their hardest to deny national liberation for the Serbs.

National liberation denied to Serbs in Yugoslavia? Then why is it that it was only the Serbs who fought to preserve the state of Yugoslavia?

[Zrinski]

Yugoslavia was first and foremost created by those same big powers, mainly the American-British-French imperialists. Yugoslavia falling apart was their loss and of their allies the Serbs.

[VAMPIR]

I sugest opening new thread to discuss this things.

[Rakhmetov]

Yugoslavia was first and foremost created by those same big powers, mainly the American-British-French imperialists. Yugoslavia falling apart was their loss and of their allies the Serbs.

No, it wasn't. Yugoslavia became a nonaligned communist-ruled country which did not regularly acquiesce to western imperialism. The breakup of Yugoslavia has only benefitted imperialism. This allowed for micro states in the Balkans to be ruled by western proxies like Tuđman and dictators like Ashdown.

The fact of the matter is that the group which experienced the most persecution and ethnic cleansing were the poor, oppressed Serbs. 300 thousand Serbs were forced out because of murderous campaigns like "Operation Storm". 500 thousand were forced out of Bosnia.

[Slavic Enforcer]

Star, would you just shut the fuck up?

Several hundred thousand Croats were also expelled, imagine.

[Zrinski]

No, it wasn't. Yugoslavia became a nonaligned communist-ruled country which did not regularly acquiesce to western imperialism.

:rofl: You really have no clue. Did you actually knew that the west supported Yugoslavia and Tito himself for decades? I am not talking about moral support but about financial and military support. Guess you didn't know that, huh? ;)

The breakup of Yugoslavia has only benefitted imperialism. This allowed for micro states in the Balkans to be ruled by western proxies like Tuđman and dictators like Ashdown.

No more than it would benefit them if Yugoslavia remained. Thats why the west refused for so long to accept the fact Yugoslavia can be no more. Tudjman a dictator? Funny you mention that since those same western imperialist proclaimed him that because he refused to play to their tune and to be their lackey.

The fact of the matter is that the group which experienced the most persecution and ethnic cleansing were the poor, oppressed Serbs. 300 thousand Serbs were forced out because of murderous campaigns like "Operation Storm". 500 thousand were forced out of Bosnia.

Please do no talk trash. At least 500,000 Croats were exiled all over Croatia, at least as much in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Croatia took almost a million refugees at one point just from Bosnia. Even today about 350,000 Croats are still unable to get to their homes and properties in Bosnia (Serbian entity).

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Still waiting for Star to answer my previous post - or perhaps he cannot because his argument has been de-constructed

[Rakhmetov]

What is the point of "independence" for Montengro? And how is a tiny micro state like it supposed to be truly independent? It cannot possibly survive without foreign trade. How does Montengro differ from Serbia enough to become a separate state? This was a dreadful move because it deprives Srbia from access to the sea. I think ethnic Serbs who do not want to be part of this "Montengro" state should secede with the use of force if necessary.


National liberation denied to Serbs in Yugoslavia? Then why is it that it was only the Serbs who fought to preserve the state of Yugoslavia?

Obviously because it was to their interests. Serbs would be free to pursue self-determination in a progressive, socialist Yugoslavia rather than in a neo-Ustasche fascist state or an Islamic caliphate.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Obviously because it was to their interests. Serbs would be free to pursue self-determination in a progressive, socialist Yugoslavia rather than in a neo-Ustasche fascist state or an Islamic caliphate.


Haha! I've heard more coherent arguments from Ice addicts bro :rofl:

You stated in a previous post that national-liberation was denied to the Serbs in Yugoslavia, yet now you claim they fought to protect Yugoslavia because it was in their interests to pursue self-determination within the frame-work of that state!

By the way, how many 'neo-Ustasche fascists' do you know? Of all the Croats I know personally - not one is a subscriber.

[Zrinski]

What is the point of "independence" for Montengro?

The point is in the fact they want to be an indepedent and they were always a separate sovereign state. Even during Ottoman Empire.

And how is a tiny micro state like it supposed to be truly independent?

There are far smaller states such as Luxemburg, Andorra, Lichtenstein, San Marino, etc. and they are doing just fine.

How does Montengro differ from Serbia enough to become a separate state? This was a dreadful move because it deprives Srbia from access to the sea.

It differs enough in the fact they don't want to be a part of the same state. And Serbia never had an access to the sea since middle ages in the first place and even then it was through control of certain vassal states.

I think ethnic Serbs who do not want to be part of this "Montengro" state should secede with the use of force if necessary.

Yes and have another war which would lead into further pauperization and isolation.

Obviously because it was to their interests. Serbs would be free to pursue self-determination in a progressive, socialist Yugoslavia rather than in a neo-Ustasche fascist state or an Islamic caliphate.

They can purpsue self-determination in Serbia.

[VAMPIR]

What is the point of "independence" for Montengro? And how is a tiny micro state like it supposed to be truly independent? It cannot possibly survive without foreign trade. How does Montengro differ from Serbia enough to become a separate state? This was a dreadful move because it deprives Srbia from access to the sea. I think ethnic Serbs who do not want to be part of this "Montengro" state should secede with the use of force if necessary.
Oh...:rofl:
Montenegro is much more then someones access to the sea. That is one reason for Montenegren independence, beside the fact that we're not Serbs. But, why explain it to someone who wouldn't understand it anyway.

[Rakhmetov]

we're not Serbs.

That is about as meaningful as Bavarians not being Prussian or Andalucians not being Valencian.

And only 40% of the population of Montenegro identifies itself as Montenegrin. This is yet another violation of the Serbs' rights.

[VAMPIR]

That is about as meaningful as Bavarians not being Prussian or Andalucians not being Valencian.

And only 40% of the population of Montenegro identifies itself as Montenegrin. This is yet another violation of the Serbs' rights.
I said, why explain that to someone who wouldn't understand it. Have you ever heard of therm of assimilation. As nations are closer, process has bigger chances to be succesfull. No more from me.