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  #11  
Old 03-18-2007, 05:49 PM
bardamu bardamu is offline
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Default Julian Lee

When I was 23 I was living in Manhattan, and I was the victim of a violent street crime. I was on the phone talking to a friend in San Francisco when 2 men approached and shot me in the stomach for no apparent reason other than probably the fact that I am White. The bullet destroyed one of my kidneys and on the emergency room table, bleeding to death, opened up without aid of anesthetics, I called out to Krishna for aid, over and over again, because I had read that if you die with the name of Krishna on your lips you go straight to Nirvana . I am 50 years old now and I still honor Krishna with a statue in my bedroom.

I would like to reread the Bhagavad Gita, which translation do you recommend?

PS. I sent this in a private email but your box if full.
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  #12  
Old 03-18-2007, 06:07 PM
Keystone Keystone is offline
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Are you a practicing Hindu, bardamu?
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  #13  
Old 03-18-2007, 07:16 PM
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Mentious Mentious is offline
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Love that story Bardamu. But I am pissed that they did that to you.
But faith is a miraculous mystery, and the Deity is a miraculous mystery.
In the Gita Krsna says: "However men worship me, and by whatever name, I alone receive that worship."
Ramakrishna said that a natural father always knows one of his children is talking to him, or calling his name,
even if the child lisps or can't pronounce "father" correctly. Obvious. (He would say that to fools who argued that 'there's was the correct name for God,' or 'here's how the mantra is supposed to be pronounced.') Here's some interesting verses from the ninth chapter related to this idea:

"Even the devotees of other Shining Ones,
who worship full of faith,
they also worship Me,
O son of Kunti, though contrary
to the ancient rule.

I am indeed the enjoyer of all sacrifices
and also the Lord, but they know Me not
in Essence, and hence they fail.

They who worship the Shining Ones go
to the Shining ones; to the Ancestors go to
the Ancestor-worshippers; to the Elementals
go those who sacrifice to the Elementas; but
My worshippers come unto Me."
--Krsna, Bhagavad-Gita 9:23-25, Besant Trans.


Is that you in the picture?
I will answer better later in the thread and pick out a few good Gita translators that I'll recommend.

Last edited by Mentious : 03-19-2007 at 12:27 AM.
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  #14  
Old 03-18-2007, 07:25 PM
bardamu bardamu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keystone
Are you a practicing Hindu, bardamu?

No, Keystone. I don't know if that would even be possible as Hinduism is, so far as I can tell, irreducibly dependent upon genealogical relationships. What caste would I belong to?

Somewhere in my early 20's I developed interest in spirituality, especially the Eastern varieties, so I spent a lot of time reading.
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  #15  
Old 03-18-2007, 07:28 PM
bardamu bardamu is offline
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Julian,

I will await your recommendation.

Concerning my avatar. Are you familiar with Eustace Mullins? I am presently reading a book by him that is very different called the Curse of Canaan: A Demonology of History.
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  #16  
Old 03-18-2007, 08:56 PM
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Vasily Zaitsev Vasily Zaitsev is offline
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I'm not Julian Lee, but I always recommend the Winthrop Sargeant/SUNY edition of the Gita.

Most widely available editions of the Bhagavad are heavily edited for length and clarity. Translators will arbitrarily declare descriptions of armies irrelevant or titles of Krishna confusing. This is no way to read a religious text seeing as how meaning can be found anywhere in such a work.

The above-linked version is complete. It includes the Sanskrit, a transliteration of the Sanskrit into Roman characters, a literal translation of every stanza, and a plain English translation likewise.
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  #17  
Old 03-18-2007, 09:20 PM
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Mentious Mentious is offline
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I am not Valisy Zaitsev, but that looks like a very good publication of the Bhagavad-Gita from what I read. I would love to see a few cases of how certain verses are handled. I would like to have it myself.

I always flip to how the translator does verse 6:13 on meditation technique (the "nose"/"eyebrows" verse).

Verse 9:32, the one that mentions women, is always a good one to go check to find out if they are being honest in the translation or have a modern agenda.

I especially enjoy seeing how translators do my favorite Gita verse, 9:22:

"To those men who exclusively meditate upon Me,
thinking of no other, who are ever devout,
I bring prosperity and security."


or another translation:

"He who meditates on me with a oneness of mind
ever united to me by incessant worship,
I remove his deficiencies and make permament his gains."

Last edited by Mentious : 03-18-2007 at 10:40 PM.
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  #18  
Old 03-19-2007, 01:13 AM
bardamu bardamu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily Zaitsev
I'm not Julian Lee, but I always recommend the Winthrop Sargeant/SUNY edition of the Gita.

Most widely available editions of the Bhagavad are heavily edited for length and clarity. Translators will arbitrarily declare descriptions of armies irrelevant or titles of Krishna confusing. This is no way to read a religious text seeing as how meaning can be found anywhere in such a work.

The above-linked version is complete. It includes the Sanskrit, a transliteration of the Sanskrit into Roman characters, a literal translation of every stanza, and a plain English translation likewise.

Thank you, Vasily. This is the edition I shall purchase.
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  #19  
Old 03-19-2007, 02:10 AM
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Mentious Mentious is offline
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Good move. I don't even think I have a version that is technically that respectable, besides Yogananda's version which is an expensive two-volume set. Called "God Talks With Arjuna -- The Bhagavad-Gita," I'd choose that one if I had to choose only one and call it the greatest. But it's probably a bit too heavy unless one is very into Yoganada. Most of the other Gitas I have are probably not easily found today except in used book stores. I am going to get this one also. I do NOT recommend the one by Eknath Easwaran of California, though it looks impressive it's shallow. (Californianized, it is.) The Gita by Barbara Stoller Miller contains modern female distortions and is good for the trash can. (That's where I threw hers within 10 minutes of buying it.) The one you see everywhere by Juan Mascaro, Penguin Classics, is very poetified and filtered. He eliminates or changes most of the technical terms and tries so hard to make it pleasant as English prose that he sacrifices accuracy and concepts unfamiliar to westerners (and the Gita is loaded with those). The version by Annie Besant of the Theosophical Society is very respectable, retains much of the technical language, and you can probably easily find it.

This one -- the one you're getting -- will be a scholarly version. The other type of Gita to get are those translated, and with commentaries, by yogis, adepts, and those advanced in meditation -- spiritual masters. These are the juiciest versions and full of real insight about the arcane subjects discussed. Often the drier scholarly versions will lack yogic insight. An example of this would be Verse 4:71:

"Yet other [yogis] pour as sacrifice the outgoing breath
into the incoming, and the incoming [breath] into the outgoing,
restraining the flow of the outgoing and incoming breaths..."


This is a verse that a most scholars wouldn't understand, and speaks about an ultimate attainment of yogic breath techniques (pranayama) that is called "kumbhaka." In cases like this, only yogic adepts, and their commentaries, succeed in shedding light on many Gita verses. Also, since the Gita is very heavy with the spirit of bhakti-yoga or devotion, it is good to read versions by devotees who understand that.

So this type of Gita version would be a second tier to look for after looking at it first through a scholars eyes. Examples would be the translations by Swami Vivekananda, Swami Satchitadanda, Yogananda, Swami Rama, Sri Chinmoy, and various others yogis and gurus. I have many of these, but first you have to have some interest and respect for the person. The scholarly version you have ordered is certainly an excellent first choice from what I read about it.

--Julian

Last edited by Mentious : 03-19-2007 at 04:21 AM.
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  #20  
Old 03-19-2007, 02:36 AM
bardamu bardamu is offline
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Julian, I could research it but it is easier to ask you. What was the name of the yogi who founded the Krisha Consciousness movement? You know the airport mendicant gadflies. Didn't he translate a Gita? And what do you think of that movement in general? They were out there but he was supposedly charismatic.
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