The Phora  

Go Back   The Phora > The Academy > Miscellaneous
User Name
Password
Blog Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Miscellaneous Discuss topics that don't fit into any specific forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-12-2005, 06:44 PM
Banat's Avatar
Banat Banat is offline
Established member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pannonian Sea
Posts: 630
Default Hansel and Gretel kidnapped by the Jews in Serbia

Dispite the misleading thread title, this is still an interesting read. An authentic folk version of the fairy tale I have just found.

We all know the famous story about a boy and a girl abandoned by their parents in the woods and captured by a wicked witch that lived in a house made of gingerbread, who wanted to eat them up. A common folk story told for centuries throughout Europe, written and standardized by Grimm brothers in 1857 (first version in 1812), based on 'various stories from Hessen' of the time.

An interesting version of the folk story was being told in Serbia at the time, with that difference that there weren't the gingerbread house and the wicked witch, but the Jews and the Jews' mother.


(Gretel and the witch, Wikipedia)

Quote:
(After finding out that forest beasts have eaten the crumbs they dropped to mark their way home).

When the children saw that, they burst into tears, and returned to the fire. At that moment, some Jews appeared from somewhere, and when they saw the fire they approached the siblings asking them what they were doing there, and if they were alone. And when they told them what happened, the Jews invited the siblings to come with them, promising that everything would be alright.

The siblings accepted the offer and went off with the Jews, so they took them to their house. They had no one else there but their mother, and when they came they locked the boy to fatten and left the girl to serve the mother. One day when the Jews went to work, they saw that the boy was fat enough and they ordered their mother to bake him, so they could eat him in the evening, when they return.

But the girl had learned a few Jewish words during the time, so she was able to understand what the Jews told their mother about her brother. ( . . . )

What follows is very similar: the girl tricks the old woman, throws her into the oven and frees the brother.

(The end is somewhat different. Running away, the siblings met a ragged, dirty woman, who was actually a disguised sorceress or a fairy testing them, and who blessed them with gifts and showed them their way home).

This is a very interesting folk version, of which I was totally ignorant. The version of 'Hansel and Gretel' told here today came with the media and popular culture and is in fact the Grimm version, translated as 'Johnny and Mary' to fit the original names of the siblings.

Hansel and Gretel, a comparison of the versions of 1812 and 1857 -> LINK

(The quotation is my translation of the part of the story, written down in 1827 in Serbia).
__________________
Woody: How are you feeling today, Mr. Peterson?
Norm: Poor.
Woody: Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
Norm: No, I meant 'pour'.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-22-2005, 01:01 AM
daisy's Avatar
daisy daisy is offline
Established member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 459
Default

thanx for the link banat alot of people in u.s always said a german wrote the hansel and gretel story about jews.
__________________
Join Daisy's Pan-Albino National Front. ALBINO PRIDE, WORLD WIDE
http://albinopride.proboards84.com/
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-22-2005, 01:30 AM
Banat's Avatar
Banat Banat is offline
Established member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pannonian Sea
Posts: 630
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daisy
thanx for the link banat alot of people in u.s always said a german wrote the hansel and gretel story about jews.

I didn't know that. I actually don't know of any other version of 'Hansel and Gretel' involving any Jews, except for this one. And I first read it several months ago. 'Hansel and Gretel' is in fact a European folk fairy-tale, existing with different peoples in more-less similar versions. I was however surprised when I found this one.

No wonder why this old version can't be found anywhere in the media or popular literature. I was even surprised when I found it published without any additional comments. It hasn't even been censored all this time - it was just put aside and replaced with the Grimm/German version.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-22-2005, 01:51 AM
daisy's Avatar
daisy daisy is offline
Established member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 459
Default

mostly from parents some of us grew up thinking it was a jewish witch.
some of u.s. were taught that the bad characters were metaphors for jews and the good children were white gentiles that jews might harm.
when i was young i learned about the jew story version from a floridian woman from hollywood. actually to be exact it was faye dunaways cousin that told me the jew version. now no one will probally believe that yet it is true. i also met faye dunaway once right after she did bonnie and clyde. she told me she started out as a model for light patio fixtures when she was a baby, she told me about her house that her parents had in baskin fla. she also told me there were originally 5 naked scenes in bonnie and clyde yet her grandmother only agreed on them showing the one naked scene with her standing by the window with the curtain covering her.

Last edited by daisy : 12-23-2005 at 06:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:17 AM
Banat's Avatar
Banat Banat is offline
Established member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pannonian Sea
Posts: 630
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daisy
mostly from parents some of us grew up thinking it was a jewish witch.
some of u.s. were taught that the bad characters were metaphors for jews and the good children were white gentiles that jews might harm.

I actually never gave this a serious thought. I've heard that there were stories about Jews eating children, but I kind of always thought they were post WWI inventions, and not based on some folk prejudices.

It somehow seems that "anti-Semitism" is deeply rooted in the people, and not a modern political/ideological invention.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:28 AM
daisy's Avatar
daisy daisy is offline
Established member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 459
Default

Quote:
it somehow seems that "anti-semitism" is deeply rooted in the people, and not a modern political/ideological invention.
true i know it is deeply rooted in me. my dad told me if he ever caught me with a black guy he would give me two black eyes. so i still won't have much to do with black people.
he also used to tell me stay far away from blacks them blacks will kill you.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-23-2005, 10:10 PM
Faustian Dreams's Avatar
Faustian Dreams Faustian Dreams is offline
Established member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ
Age: 30
Posts: 208
Country: United States
Default

Does no one else see the irony in Gretel throwing the old Jew in the oven? Screw the Nietzsche-Hitler connection, let's unearth other subtle anti-semitic sentiments in the stories of the brothers Grimm!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-30-2005, 05:30 AM
daisy's Avatar
daisy daisy is offline
Established member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 459
Default

Does no one else see the irony in Gretel throwing the old Jew in the oven?
thanks for pointing that out so now i realize a similarity to hitler ovens
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-30-2005, 05:41 AM
Dances with Wolves's Avatar
Dances with Wolves Dances with Wolves is offline
But I digress
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Occupied Territory
Posts: 2,951
Country: Iran
Default She speaks into her spoon before she types

Quote:
Originally Posted by daisy
mostly from parents some of us grew up thinking it was a jewish witch.
some of u.s. were taught that the bad characters were metaphors for jews and the good children were white gentiles that jews might harm.
when i was young i learned about the jew story version from a floridian woman from hollywood. actually to be exact it was faye dunaways cousin that told me the jew version. now no one will probally believe that yet it is true. i also met faye dunaway once right after she did bonnie and clyde. she told me she started out as a model for light patio fixtures when she was a baby, she told me about her house that her parents had in baskin fla. she also told me there were originally 5 naked scenes in bonnie and clyde yet her grandmother only agreed on them showing the one naked scene with her standing by the window with the curtain covering her.

Banat, in case you weren't aware, you are talking to someone that has earned too much computer time at the asylum. Just a heads up.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-30-2005, 06:03 AM
daisy's Avatar
daisy daisy is offline
Established member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 459
Default

she speaks into her spoon before she types. when i was rich many said i was born with a silver spoon in my mouth and that everything i touched turned to gold. funny dancing with wolves (i have that movie too) you believe you know me so well. what if i have split personalities then would you be so smart enough to guess which personality you think you know so well. heads up i am with it too.

Last edited by daisy : 12-31-2005 at 08:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Page generated in 0.06754 seconds with 9 queries